EP Lowers

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

  • No ad networks!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • patdale86

    Member
    Mar 1, 2013
    6
    John,

    Let's assume you are a customer and in no way affiliated with EP Lowers. If you received a blem lower and needed to fill a hole in said lower and re-drill it to the correct dimensions, which commercially available product would you use? 3M epoxy, JB Weld ...

    This could be helpful information.

    I used Loctite Plastic Epoxy and it worked great.
     

    E P LOWERS

    Member
    Aug 26, 2013
    38
    Tomorrow we will be having a large blem sale getting rid of the last of the no warranty products in stock. We expect to have all colors available for this massive blowout.

    Sale starts at 12 Noon PACIFIC TIME TOMORROW on 10-18-2013.

    www.eplowers.com
     

    armed ferret

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Sep 23, 2008
    7,943
    McDoogal's
    Tomorrow we will be having a large blem sale getting rid of the last of the no warranty products in stock. We expect to have all colors available for this massive blowout.

    Sale starts at 12 Noon PACIFIC TIME TOMORROW on 10-18-2013.

    www.eplowers.com

    too bad it's not legal to finish them in maryland anymore.

    guess you'll have to sell 'em on all the other boards you've been spamming. :rolleyes:
     

    NateIU10

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 6, 2009
    4,587
    Southport, CT
    too bad it's not legal to finish them in maryland anymore.

    guess you'll have to sell 'em on all the other boards you've been spamming. :rolleyes:

    Question:

    Why is a lower banned?

    Follow up. Even if banned, why couldn't you finish it outside of MD and build it into a legal configuration before transporting into the state?
     

    DaemonAssassin

    Why should we Free BSD?
    Jun 14, 2012
    23,970
    Political refugee in WV
    Question:

    Why is a lower banned?

    Follow up. Even if banned, why couldn't you finish it outside of MD and build it into a legal configuration before transporting into the state?

    Depending on who interprets FSA 2013, it can/will be considered manufacturing a banned weapon, even if it was never made into a banned configuration. Do you really trust the AG or anybody in the administration to do anything other than make the lives of gun owners a living hell?

    The jury is still out on whether stripped lowers are illegal after 10/1/13.
     

    huesmann

    n00b
    Mar 23, 2012
    1,927
    Silver Spring, MD
    Depending on who interprets FSA 2013, it can/will be considered manufacturing a banned weapon, even if it was never made into a banned configuration. Do you really trust the AG or anybody in the administration to do anything other than make the lives of gun owners a living hell?

    The jury is still out on whether stripped lowers are illegal after 10/1/13.
    He's asking about doing it in another state. Stripped lowers are legal everywhere, AFAIK. In Maryland they're only probably (TBD) illegal to finish. If you take an 80% (legal to possess) to say, Virginia, finish it there, build it out into an HBAR, and bring it back to Maryland, is that illegal?
     

    DaemonAssassin

    Why should we Free BSD?
    Jun 14, 2012
    23,970
    Political refugee in WV
    He's asking about doing it in another state. Stripped lowers are legal everywhere, AFAIK. In Maryland they're only probably (TBD) illegal to finish. If you take an 80% (legal to possess) to say, Virginia, finish it there, build it out into an HBAR, and bring it back to Maryland, is that illegal?

    Depending on the legal beagles with the SA/AG office, would you want to take the chance of being found in violation of SB 281? I wouldn't want to...
     

    NateIU10

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 6, 2009
    4,587
    Southport, CT
    Depending on the legal beagles with the SA/AG office, would you want to take the chance of being found in violation of SB 281? I wouldn't want to...

    Complete HBARs that are non-Colt Manufactured are still sold cash and carry right now right? What portion of SB281 would you be accused of violating?
     

    DaemonAssassin

    Why should we Free BSD?
    Jun 14, 2012
    23,970
    Political refugee in WV
    Complete HBARs that are non-Colt Manufactured are still sold cash and carry right now right? What portion of SB281 would you be accused of violating?

    Because the jury is still out on if a stripped 100% lower is banned or not, you can be hit with manufacturing a banned weapon. The barrel profile does not matter one bit, but the fact that the stripped lower can be considered a banned weapon. My evidence to support this claim of the lower being a banned firearm is that before 10/1/13, MD and MSP considered 100% stripped lowers as regulated firearms, no matter what configuration you built them into. Even if you built it into an HBAR it is still registered as a regulated firearm, thus when you sell it, it must be sold as a regulated firearm.

    By the logic stated above, using a 80% lower to build a firearm, whether it is built into an HBAR, pistol, or other, is still illegal according to the law. You would be charged with manufacturing a banned firearm, because the lower is the firearm and still considered a regulated item. Also, if you have other rifles that have government profile uppers, and a finished 80% lower, you can be initially charged with constructive intent, due to having the ability to create a rifle in a banned configuration, whether you would do it or not. People have been charged for violating federal law for having an AR15SBR upper without a tax stamp/paperwork, because they have ARs with 16+ inch uppers on them, because they have the ability to swap the uppers and create a illegal firearm. The same holds true of people that had all of the auto/burst parts for an AR in sealed plastic bags, yet did not own an NFA weapon that could accept those parts and reliably function as a unregistered NFA weapon.

    You have to understand that the law is so murky and full of pitfalls that it is impossible to know what can/can't be done in regards to finishing 80% lowers, yet still staying legal. The easiest charge to throw at you and would stick would be constructive intent and that is a hard charge to beat. Most of use have at least 1 or 2 AR15s that are in a "banned" configuration that were purchased before 10/1. It gets slippery if they decide to say that the 80% lower is fine, but because you have "banned" config ARs, you can make the 80% into a banned weapon.

    Take the chance if you want to, but I recommend that you don't take the chance at all by making an 80% into a 100%, after 10/1/13, on the off chance they call you on it.

    Whichever section Gansler and company arbitrarily decide.

    ^^^ Bingo!
     

    NateIU10

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 6, 2009
    4,587
    Southport, CT
    Because the jury is still out on if a stripped 100% lower is banned or not, you can be hit with manufacturing a banned weapon. The barrel profile does not matter one bit, but the fact that the stripped lower can be considered a banned weapon. My evidence to support this claim of the lower being a banned firearm is that before 10/1/13, MD and MSP considered 100% stripped lowers as regulated firearms, no matter what configuration you built them into. Even if you built it into an HBAR it is still registered as a regulated firearm, thus when you sell it, it must be sold as a regulated firearm.
    While they were sold regulated (which I always disagreed with) you are incorrect as to your last point. There is no "once regulated always regulated" standard. MSP would regularly tell people that an AR in a non-regulated configuration could be transferred without a 77r.

    By the logic stated above, using a 80% lower to build a firearm, whether it is built into an HBAR, pistol, or other, is still illegal according to the law. You would be charged with manufacturing a banned firearm, because the lower is the firearm and still considered a regulated item. Also, if you have other rifles that have government profile uppers, and a finished 80% lower, you can be initially charged with constructive intent, due to having the ability to create a rifle in a banned configuration, whether you would do it or not. People have been charged for violating federal law for having an AR15SBR upper without a tax stamp/paperwork, because they have ARs with 16+ inch uppers on them, because they have the ability to swap the uppers and create a illegal firearm. The same holds true of people that had all of the auto/burst parts for an AR in sealed plastic bags, yet did not own an NFA weapon that could accept those parts and reliably function as a unregistered NFA weapon.
    I'm not really sure where to start on this part, so I'll just let it go as truth.

    You have to understand that the law is so murky and full of pitfalls that it is impossible to know what can/can't be done in regards to finishing 80% lowers, yet still staying legal. The easiest charge to throw at you and would stick would be constructive intent and that is a hard charge to beat. Most of use have at least 1 or 2 AR15s that are in a "banned" configuration that were purchased before 10/1. It gets slippery if they decide to say that the 80% lower is fine, but because you have "banned" config ARs, you can make the 80% into a banned weapon.
    I understand the murkiness of the law. I work with it almost every day.

    Take the chance if you want to, but I recommend that you don't take the chance at all by making an 80% into a 100%, after 10/1/13, on the off chance they call you on it.
    MD law forbids a person from transporting an Assault Weapon into the state, as well as possession, sale, offer to sell, transfer, purchase, or receipt of an assault weapon. Now, an Assault Weapon consists of Assault Long Guns, Assault Pistols, and Copycats. An HBAR is not an Assault Long Gun, making it not banned. If you manufacture an HBAR out of state and transport a non-banned firearm into the state, I fail to see what you would be charged with.
     

    DaemonAssassin

    Why should we Free BSD?
    Jun 14, 2012
    23,970
    Political refugee in WV
    While they were sold regulated (which I always disagreed with) you are incorrect as to your last point. There is no "once regulated always regulated" standard. MSP would regularly tell people that an AR in a non-regulated configuration could be transferred without a 77r.

    MSP may have said that, but from a legal standpoint they were telling you to break the law. If a firearm has the serial number put down on a 77R, it is registered to you. It can not be transferred without the transfer occurring on another 77R. Haven't you figured it out by now that MSP "interprets" the law depending on what the current scuttlebutt is?

    I'm not really sure where to start on this part, so I'll just let it go as truth.

    Fair enough. If you doubt it, do some research. You might be surprised with what you find regarding constructive intent, DOJ, and BATFE when it comes to firearms.

    I understand the murkiness of the law. I work with it almost every day.

    Do you work with firearm law, family law, criminal law, civil law? What is your legal background? I am not calling you out, I am just curious, so I can understand where you are coming from a little better.

    MD law forbids a person from transporting an Assault Weapon into the state, as well as possession, sale, offer to sell, transfer, purchase, or receipt of an assault weapon. Now, an Assault Weapon consists of Assault Long Guns, Assault Pistols, and Copycats. An HBAR is not an Assault Long Gun, making it not banned. If you manufacture an HBAR out of state and transport a non-banned firearm into the state, I fail to see what you would be charged with.

    The prohibition on transporting into the state was stricken from the final bill that was passed into law. An AR15 HBAR is in fact a banned weapon according to the original law and also FSA 2013. The only reason why the AR15 HBAR was not banned also is because they had to have an "exception" to show that they haven't totally banned a class of firearms.

    The problem is that you would be importing/transporting a banned firearm into MD because the lower is the firearm. It doesn't matter what you intend to build it out as, it matters that the lower is technically considered banned by FSA 2013/SB281. As such, possession of a stripped lower purchased/manufactured after 10/1 would be a violation of the law and punishable in criminal courts. You are missing the point that I am trying to make, I am trying to explain to you that the firearm (the lower receiver or whatever has the serial number that is considered the firearm) is the regulated part of the weapon, as such if it is part of a regulated firearm (or can be considered part of a regulated firearm before being finished) listed in SB 281, the purchase/manufacture/import of the item is banned as of 10/1/13 according to FSA 2013/SB 281.
     

    bmodzelewski

    Active Member
    Oct 11, 2012
    407
    Middle River
    Be careful. The blemished EP Lowers I received yesterday had take-down pin holes that were drilled out of alignment. .030 on one side and .026 on the other. That is a little more than a blemish in my opinion.

    EDIT: EPLOWERS (John) is working with me on PM here.

    I'll keep you posted.

    EDIT(2): Disregard. no warranty on blemished units. You're on your own even with holes drilled out of tolerance.:tdown:

    can you post a picture of what you mean? I wouldn't mind seeing this.

    thanks.
     

    BMW

    Member
    Feb 28, 2013
    99
    SoMD
    No, Sorry. EPLowers was gracious enough to allow me to return it for a refund. I shipped it out a couple of days ago.

    If you can picture the counter bore and the hole for the rear take-down pin...they are were not concentric with the hole being .030" closer to the upper edge than it should be. The specified tolerance is +/- .015". That is 100% out of tolerance. I was concerned that the slight upward angel would cause the BCG to impact the buffer tube.
     

    E P LOWERS

    Member
    Aug 26, 2013
    38
    1000614_693137864037939_1211155576_n.jpg
     

    Users who are viewing this thread

    Forum statistics

    Threads
    274,922
    Messages
    7,259,125
    Members
    33,349
    Latest member
    christian04

    Latest threads

    Top Bottom