To be specific, it is permission to manufacture. Definitely not the same.
SBR with post Oct 1st lower?
- Thread starter Noroar1
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To be specific, it is permission to manufacture. Definitely not the same.
K.C.Dean
Ultimate Member
Is there a thread that has definitive answers about SBRs? The answer seem to be all over the place.
That's because MSP's advisories were all over the place. And BATFE's behavior based on those were also all over the place.
It seems it's settled down to
You can make or transfer an SBR as long as it's OAL is > 29". Doesn't seem to matter to BATFFE or MSP when the lower was purchased. This is from observation of threads here, nothing more. And the feature test applies until Engage gets a reply back from MSP asking them to show how the law allows an SBR can be both a handgun and a rifle for purposes of the copycat provision. (It's not IMO but we wait.)
IANAL.
It seems it's settled down to
You can make or transfer an SBR as long as it's OAL is > 29". Doesn't seem to matter to BATFFE or MSP when the lower was purchased. This is from observation of threads here, nothing more. And the feature test applies until Engage gets a reply back from MSP asking them to show how the law allows an SBR can be both a handgun and a rifle for purposes of the copycat provision. (It's not IMO but we wait.)
IANAL.
Brooklyn
I stand with John Locke.
No new firearm is created when a lower is assembled. The argument is that the tax stamp is permision to build a new firearm. It implies nothing about making pistols into riles at a later date. Since all lowers were 77r and other they are in fact pistols under the law until converted to riles via SBR process.
How is a lower marked an O a pistol? It's an O.
I'd agree that with MSP's ruling on lowers, it might be. It could also be an HBAR.
I'd agree that with MSP's ruling on lowers, it might be. It could also be an HBAR.
- Feb 4, 2013
- 28,175
So I buy a lower an build an HBAR. How is that converted to a rifle via the SBR process? A lower is a lower, it is not a rifle or a pistol.
According to the BATFE a new firearm IS created when you SBR it. It goes from a rifle to an SBR, which is a different firearm.
exactly.
KlickAndKlack
Member
- Mar 14, 2010
- 3
Does the 29" criterion apply even if SBR'ing a pistol on the Maryland Handgun Roster?
If it's an SBR, it has to have an OAL > 29". Doesn't matter how it started, as either a a lower or a pistol.
In Md, SBR's are not allowed.
We can only possess the "SBR/P (Short Barreled Rifle/Pistol)" or is it the SBP/R? Or the "LBP/RW/SB (long Barreled Pistol/Rifle with a short barrel)" or the SBR/PW/LB?
Apparently the politicians hadn't thunk this one through in their haste to perpetuate their "we'll show them whose in charge" and "look at me, I did something" attitude.
I would say that those elected to "serve" it's citizenry, owe it to said citizenry to at least make crystal-clear the intent of the law instead of forming ambiguous law's in order to have the option to play "I got you" whenever they deem it (in)appropriate.
We can only possess the "SBR/P (Short Barreled Rifle/Pistol)" or is it the SBP/R? Or the "LBP/RW/SB (long Barreled Pistol/Rifle with a short barrel)" or the SBR/PW/LB?
Apparently the politicians hadn't thunk this one through in their haste to perpetuate their "we'll show them whose in charge" and "look at me, I did something" attitude.
I would say that those elected to "serve" it's citizenry, owe it to said citizenry to at least make crystal-clear the intent of the law instead of forming ambiguous law's in order to have the option to play "I got you" whenever they deem it (in)appropriate.
bobthefisher
Durka ninja
Not to nitpick guys but I keep seeing >29 inches, we have a lot of new members on here, and the proper response is >=29 inches. That one inch makes a big difference, just say'n 
Actually the proper response is < 29" according to 281, but yes you're correct.
- Feb 4, 2013
- 28,175
But would you trust MSP to measure that accurately?
There is a reason that most factory short rifle barrels are 16 1/4" rather than 16" exactly.
There is a reason that most factory short rifle barrels are 16 1/4" rather than 16" exactly.
Not to nitpick guys but I keep seeing >29 inches, we have a lot of new members on here, and the proper response is >=29 inches. That one inch makes a big difference, just say'n
Yep, 281 just says it's a copycat if it's less than 29". I started intentionally using > 29” somewhere along the way.
Just didn’t want to see anyone build to exactly 29” and be exposed to a LEO measurement that potentially comes up short.
bobthefisher
Durka ninja
I also think a lot of us can agree that a strait through (non-grenade launcher notched) .750 inch diameter barrel is considered well enough to be HBAR. I know some will disagree, but since the lack of a formal definition (as it would be stupid in any other state), thats what I'm going with for now. And yes, good look'n out gents, <29 inches is the proper definition for OAL copycats.
- Feb 4, 2013
- 28,175
Not to nitpick guys but I keep seeing >29 inches, we have a lot of new members on here, and the proper response is >=29 inches. That one inch makes a big difference, just say'n
It is not one inch.
>=29" means 29.000000000000000" is legal.
.29" means you have to make it 29.000000000000001" to be legal. Or more realistically 29.1".
So the difference in practical terms is 0.1"
Just wanted to say hello to everyone, first post here and I have been looking for info about sending a form 1 for a lower. I sent a form 1 this January and filled out the OAL of 29.5in using a 10.5bbl. Unfortunately, it was disapproved with the reasons of "MD STATE LAW,ASSAULT WEAPON-PROHIBITED, AR-15 IMITATION..."
Well, I decided to give it another try after talking to Engage armament and another C3 dealer and they have said people that have put OAL of 29in have been approved. Is there anything I am missing? I will keep you guys updated.
Well, I decided to give it another try after talking to Engage armament and another C3 dealer and they have said people that have put OAL of 29in have been approved. Is there anything I am missing? I will keep you guys updated.
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