Savage cancels 300BLK loading due to poor accuracy

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  • Elliotte

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 11, 2011
    1,207
    Loudoun County VA
    Deer always seem to thrive on the fringe of suburbia. Lots of corn fields coupled with diminished hunting is like Utopia for a herd.

    I guess I don't understand why someone would choose 300AAC over a traditional 30-30, 270, 30'06, or 308 for deer. It doesn't offer any advantage.
    Like others have said, the 300BLK was designed to use the same mags, same bolt, same upper (with a new barrel) as .223 in an AR. It was also designed to be suppressed and still be effective at range.
     

    midcountyg

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 7, 2009
    2,665
    Preston, MD
    There are some dense people in this thread.

    You geniuses do realize that Crossbows are legal to take large game right? Should that be stopped?

    A few peoples ignorance for hunting and human/animal dependency and sustainable animal population in general is showing. Crop Damage Permits allow a Farmer to destroy pretty much anything not endangered that is harming their crop. Its for the benefit of HUMANS and DOMESTICATED PETS because WE have a dependency on that crop to survive.

    Perhaps these idiots are like the Hippie Organic people, they want everything to be organic beacuse its "Healthier", well when you do things the Hippie way the crop output is decreased because of Pests and Varmits, thus output is decreased, and prices/demand increase.

    Deer Saturated areas also spread disease among themselves and cause natural food shortages that leads to starvation. Thinning the herds is a HUMANE and ETHICAL thing to do instead of letting them die of starvation and disease.

    A .300 BLK moving subsonic speeds most certainly has more FT Pounds of Energy than a Crossbow Bolt at equal distances. .300 Likely beats out a some Compound Bow Arrows at equal ranges.
    Thank you Chad. Yes, the people most interested in the rifles I build are using them as tools to protect their livelyhood. In our area a herd of deer can easily do thousands of dollars in damage in a very short time. Farmers have to get permits to kill the deer to keep from loosing alot of money. I think if deer cost you ten grand of your yearly salary, you to would want to shoot as many as possible to keep that from happening.

    On a different note, the terminal affect of the 300 do not come so much from the ft/lbs of energy as from the bullet tumbling. It makes a wound channel similar to a broadhead , but tears rather then cut. Also it hits with enough force to smash right through ribs and such.
    People keep saying that the ones who criticize the 7.62x39 should not like the 300 for the same reason. They say because the trajectory and accuracy are the same. That is bs . The trajectory is similar, and on paper they look alot alike. What you are failing to realize is the case design is very different. The 7.62 sacrifices accuracy for a tapered case that is more reliable in the combloc guns under adverse conditions. The same case design that promotes accuracy in 223 does the same for the 300. The 300 has more accuracy potential by design. Just because two cartridges have the same trajectory does not mean they will be equally accurate. That is why you have such cartridges as the Akley improved and such.
     

    rsilvers

    Active Member
    Dec 24, 2010
    113
    While subsonic ammo is hard to make varmint-rifle accurate, I did not expect the Savage to be as accurate as possible because they went with a 1:10 twist and a 20 inch barrel.

    1:10 twist will not stabilize 220 subsonic ammo.

    A 20 inch barrel will sometimes make the subsonic ammo transonic, and that is not great for accuracy.

    They had a few ways to make the rifle better, from doing more R&D to asking AAC for assistance as so many other rifle companies have. Given that they were not on the right path, canceling it was the best call for them to make.

    screenshot20120411at103.png
     

    rsilvers

    Active Member
    Dec 24, 2010
    113
    I have said it years ago, and will say again. The 300 Whisper, and now AAC Blackout, are very accurate cartridges when you do your part. With current offerings, hand loading is the only way to go.

    A govt user shot a 2.75 inch group yesterday at 500 yards using a 10.5 inch AR upper and Remington 125 grain factory ammo.
     

    rsilvers

    Active Member
    Dec 24, 2010
    113
    My conclusion, Remington is trying to do what they do best. Cut corners to make more profit on the ammunition. The result is crap accuracy from a cartridge that doesn't leave room to cut corners on components.

    Remington ammo has crimped and water proof primers. That costs more. They use the Sierra bullet. That costs more. They double-strike the brass to make it like NATO hardness. That costs way more, and NO ONE else does this. No corners were cut - the opposite in fact, unless you mean not hand-weighing charges.
     

    rsilvers

    Active Member
    Dec 24, 2010
    113
    Whats all the hype with the 300 blk...seriously? Seems rather slow and weak to me. I don't know much about it, but from what I see, I don't find it too useful. I think I might as well hunt deer by throwing a baseball. I'd rather use a 30-30.

    *edit*

    Not trying to stir an argument, just curious as to why it seems to be so popular.

    Because the AR15 is popular, and the AR15 cannot shoot a 30-30. 300 BLK is the 30 caliber cartridge for the AR15.
     

    rsilvers

    Active Member
    Dec 24, 2010
    113
    if you reload, why not get berdan primed brass 7.62x39, a gun that is chambered for that round (which the ones that come to mind cost less than an upper alone)...then you can do all of that already...so why reinvent the wheel? :shrug:

    its cool though, whatever floats peoples boats.

    7.62x39 is not reliable in an AR15. You can use it in a bolt gun, but you would have to deal with the unique bullet diameter.
     

    ohen cepel

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 2, 2011
    4,509
    Where they send me.
    A govt user shot a 2.75 inch group yesterday at 500 yards using a 10.5 inch AR upper and Remington 125 grain factory ammo.

    So, a 10.5in upper is a .5MOA system? That is what it would take to do that. Do you have more info on this? Very hard to believe for me with most rounds out there, especially from a 10.5in upper. Pics? More info? Where did this take place?
     

    rsilvers

    Active Member
    Dec 24, 2010
    113
    No, it is not a 0.5 MOA system, but it was used to shoot a 2.75 inch group at 500 yards.

    When you shoot a good group, it does not make your rifle that all the time.

    0.85 MOA is the best we have averaged in 300 BLK test barrels over 50 rounds (10 groups of 5 rounds each).
     

    Billman

    Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?
    May 18, 2010
    1,273
    Sykesville, MD
    While I appreciate the feedback, I find it hard to believe. I've spent considerable time with the 300 blackout. The cartridge has it's place, at 500 yards there are far better choices.




    No, it is not a 0.5 MOA system, but it was used to shoot a 2.75 inch group at 500 yards.

    When you shoot a good group, it does not make your rifle that all the time.

    0.85 MOA is the best we have averaged in 300 BLK test barrels over 50 rounds (10 groups of 5 rounds each).
     

    Lykaios

    The Plastic Fantastic
    Mar 4, 2011
    272
    Aberdeen, MD
    While I appreciate the feedback, I find it hard to believe. I've spent considerable time with the 300 blackout. The cartridge has it's place, at 500 yards there are far better choices.

    Not to pretend I am some kind of expert in this, but is this current discussion one of which caliber is BEST at 500 yards??

    Or is it whether or not .300 blk is CAPABLE of groups mentioned at 500 yards??
     

    xtreme43s10

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 19, 2007
    1,163
    maryland, in Mont county
    For everyone hating on the .300 blackout have you shot one? or heard one fired suppressed? Mine even being semi-auto is very quiet and I can shoot it all day without hearing protection and not worry about my ears. Here's a picture of one of my targets with factory ammo. This is 20 rounds of remington 220 grain sub sonic at 50 yards.
    target.jpg
     

    Lykaios

    The Plastic Fantastic
    Mar 4, 2011
    272
    Aberdeen, MD
    Have you read the previous six pages? It is obviously about how Savage hates AAC, Remington is better, alternative calibers suck, how unreliable AR's are, how great AK's are, the uselessness for subsonic calibers, ethical hunting, and personal issues among members.

    Edit- in case the sarcasm isn't clear, this thread has been a mess since the beginning.

    DAMN good point :D
     

    rsilvers

    Active Member
    Dec 24, 2010
    113
    I wanted to see what it could do at long range, so I went to a 600 yard range and was able to hit the 3 inch X-ring (1/2 MOA). No, not every time - just a few times out of 20 shots, but I was around the 10 ring a lot. You could definitely scare a bad guy at that range if you had to. It is going to be much easier to shoot it at 500 yards than 600 as it goes transonic between those distances. By M4 standards (based on hit probability), it is a 460 meter cartridge.
     

    Ski169

    Active Member
    May 28, 2012
    939
    After reading as much as I can find on this relatively new cartridge to the point where my eyes are burning, I decided to purchase an upper I found on gunbroker. A deciding factor for me was to go the nfa route and go suppressed whenever I felt like it. I guess it's like the old addage "better to have it and not need it". Another factor was the ballistics on this cartridge. From everything I have read, it seems to be pretty awesome. I'm not into oddball calibers either, but 300BLK certainly has an appeal to it.
     

    the Javid

    Part time baby killer
    Mar 20, 2012
    199
    Bowie
    I was told that because of the .300BLK the MP5sd is obsolete. You can make an AR just as long and just as quiet as the silenced MP5 but with much better accuracy. An MP5SD at 100 meters gets an 6"-8" group? What were the groups you guys were talking about at that range for the .300BLK? Also I'm fairly certain that the rounds will go through a level IIIa vest. But then this is what I was told I don't have any experience with subguns of any type nor have I ever used a .300BLK on the range. I am however waiting on a collectors permit or for my 30 day wait to be up for my lower that I intend to turn into an SBR .300BLK and get a suppressor for it. I would have done this sooner but I was in Egypt on a peace keeping mission when I learned about this caliber so I was unable to purchase the lower sooner.
     

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