Out of state license, local buyer question

71Chevelle427 · Jul 1, 2015

Can a Maryland resident sell a long gun to a active duty military who has an out of state license?

He said he has utility bills and paperwork saying he's stationed in Maryland, but no MD ID...

Thanks in advance. On a phone and search isn't working for me...I guess because I don't know a decent subject to try and find it...

jimbobborg · Jul 1, 2015

He needs to show the paperwork with his new duty-station, which has to be in Maryland.

71Chevelle427 · Jul 1, 2015

jimbobborg said:
He needs to show the paperwork with his new duty-station, which has to be in Maryland.

He stationed at Ft. Meade, but the CA license is what worried me the most. I think I'll make it easy and tell him he'll have to have it shipped to FFL from an FFL, and cover my own butt.

jimbobborg · Jul 1, 2015

Go through MSP for that, then.

BeoBill · Jul 1, 2015

71Chevelle427 said:
He stationed at Ft. Meade, but the CA license is what worried me the most. I think I'll make it easy and tell him he'll have to have it shipped to FFL from an FFL, and cover my own butt.

That is the safest way for both of you, given the transfer from MD Subject to CA Subject. I don't think the MSP is too up on CA gun law.

shootin the breeze · Jul 1, 2015

I thought this had been covered before. I know with orders having him stationed here he can buy from you. What I can't remember is whether he only has to follow MD laws or both MD and CA. As I recall the other thread was a MD resident stationed in NC and I think he was able to buy whatever NC allowed.

71Chevelle427 · Jul 1, 2015

BeoBill said:
That is the safest way for both of you, given the transfer from MD Subject to CA Subject. I don't think the MSP is too up on CA gun law.

Just for the heck of it, I stopped by local IP on the way home from work. I was told as a private seller, to do a FTF sale, "technically" all I'd need to do is make a bill of sale and do the exchange?

He said for them, an FFL, to sell to California resident, they'd need to see his driver's license, and duty papers proving that he is indeed stationed here.

I think I will tell the guy, we will have to meet at MSP barracks, and he must provide his Ca. license and duty papers (I think that's what they're called?)

I wouldn't be as concerned if it was a little 10/22 or something similar, but this is one of those evil black assault rifles that we call, an AR-15.

71Chevelle427 · Jul 1, 2015

shootin the breeze said:
I thought this had been covered before. I know with orders having him stationed here he can buy from you. What I can't remember is whether he only has to follow MD laws or both MD and CA. As I recall the other thread was a MD resident stationed in NC and I think he was able to buy whatever NC allowed.

I thought I saw a thread like that recently as well...but had no luck finding it, and if that's the case, I don't think it'd help me anyway.

esqappellate · Jul 1, 2015

71Chevelle427 said:
Can a Maryland resident sell a long gun to a active duty military who has an out of state license?

He said he has utility bills and paperwork saying he's stationed in Maryland, but no MD ID...

Thanks in advance. On a phone and search isn't working for me...I guess because I don't know a decent subject to try and find it...

Be aware of 18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3), which provides:
It is unlawful:

(3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State, (B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter;

So if your buyer is an out of state resident he may not purchase any firearm in Maryland and transport it into his state of residence (unless permitted by the other provisos). Now, a member of the Armed Forces on active duty “is a resident of the State in which his permanent duty station is located” for purposes of the firearms provisions of title 18. Id. §§ 922(b)(3), 921(b). So, how do *you* know where his "permanent duty station is located"?? How do *you* know he is on "active duty"? Why would you want to take any risk at all? Why wouldn't you want an FFL to do this transfer, just to be safe?

Easytarget18 · Jul 1, 2015

As active duty with a TX D/L stationed in MD I have made many firearm purchases from several different FFLs and private individuals while stationed here in MD.

I show my Military ID and provide a copy of my Permanent Change of Station orders that show me being assigned to a post in MD. This satisfies all the requirements for residency as outlined in 922 and is discussed on the ATF website. Every now and then an FFL will ask for a utility bill showing a MD residence in addition to the ID and PCS orders (which it sounds like he has been through it and thats why he offered to provide one).

My advice would be to draw up a bill of sale and attach a copy of his military ID and PCS orders to it and file it away with your other firearms paperwork.

BigDaddy · Jul 1, 2015

esqappellate said:
Be aware of 18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3), which provides:
It is unlawful:

(3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State, (B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter;

So if your buyer is an out of state resident he may not purchase any firearm in Maryland and transport it into his state of residence (unless permitted by the other provisos). Now, a member of the Armed Forces on active duty “is a resident of the State in which his permanent duty station is located” for purposes of the firearms provisions of title 18. Id. §§ 922(b)(3), 921(b). So, how do *you* know where his "permanent duty station is located"?? How do *you* know he is on "active duty"? Why would you want to take any risk at all? Why wouldn't you want an FFL to do this transfer, just to be safe?

Sorry I didn't go to law school. That said, there have been thousands of posts here from IP's and others regarding the purchase of long guns out of state. Were they all illegal transfers?

Subsection (b)(3) then becomes highly relevant.

(3) any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the licensee’s place of business is located,

except that this paragraph (A) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee’s place of business is located if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States

The OP is not a licensee, meaning a dealer in firearms. I would say selling a gun or a car does not make one a dealer but IANAL. My guess is with Battered Gun Owner Syndrome in MD, most people would not sell to this GI.

71Chevelle427 · Jul 1, 2015

I appreciate the replies a lot.

Unfortunately, like the last 2 or 3 "buyers", he has done nothing but waste my time...at least he called to tell me he "is gonna hold off for now", and isn't like the last clown who offered me less than 1/2 of the asking price, then probably wouldnt have followed though anyway.... :rolleyes:

Thanks again for all the replies and info. At least now I know a lot more than I did earlier today... :thumbsup:

esqappellate · Jul 1, 2015

BigDaddy said:
Sorry I didn't go to law school. That said, there have been thousands of posts here from IP's and others regarding the purchase of long guns out of state. Were they all illegal transfers?

Subsection (b)(3) then becomes highly relevant.

(3) any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the licensee’s place of business is located,

except that this paragraph (A) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee’s place of business is located if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States

The OP is not a licensee, meaning a dealer in firearms. I would say selling a gun or a car does not make one a dealer but IANAL. My guess is with Battered Gun Owner Syndrome in MD, most people would not sell to this GI.

Can't speak to all those posts. People do illegal stuff all the time in this area without knowing it. It's a legal mine field. I never sell anything except through a FFL, but I'm super paranoid.

mxrider · Jul 2, 2015

71Chevelle427 said:
I wouldn't be as concerned if it was a little 10/22 or something similar, but this is one of those evil black assault rifles that we call, an AR-15.

First question: Is this an HBAR AR-15?

71Chevelle427 · Jul 2, 2015

mxrider said:
First question: Is this an HBAR AR-15?

Yes it is.

Out of state license, local buyer question

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