Is the following legal?

virginiagunowner · Apr 6, 2014

Hey everyone,

First post here!

I am wondering if the following is legal:

I live in Virginia, but I will be living in another country for several months.

I can't bring my guns with me, but my friend, who lives in Maryland, has offered to hold onto them for me.

I don't want to leave my guns in my own apartment, since I will be sub-letting it out while I am away, to someone I don't really know.

When my friend offered to hold onto my guns for me, I mentioned the GCA 1968 prohibition on transferring handguns across state lines.

He said that if I leave the trigger locks on all my handguns, and if I keep the keys, then it would be legal for him to keep them in his safe, since he won't be able to unlock the trigger locks.

He said that I could also buy a small safe to put my handguns in, and give the small safe to him while I am gone, and that will be legal, since there would be no way for him to access my guns.

He said that would not violate the GCA 1968, or the laws of MD or VA.

He also said that the GCA 1968 does not ban interstate transfers of long guns, so it would be legal for him to hold onto them for me too, until I move back to Virginia.

I know that Maryland has stricter gun laws than VA, but I did some research online, and I can't find a definitive answer as to whether or not what I described above would be legal.

So I thought it would be a good idea to ask about it on a Maryland gun forum.

I appreciate any advice y'all have. Thanks!

swinokur · Apr 6, 2014

While BATFE says loans are ok, loans across state lines could be illegal.

Consult an attorney to be sure IMO.

Here's a good one in VA.

http://www.virginialegaldefense.com/

Minuteman · Apr 6, 2014

Dunno. Good question. You are only loaning for safekeeping so I see no issue. Hopefully someone will be along shortly with some lawyerly info.

A lot of single Soldiers leave their guns with other Soldiers in their unit to keep safe while they are deployed. Same state though, so I don't know.

swinokur · Apr 6, 2014

The issue is the loan across state lines. it could be viewed as a violation of 922r according to some pretty knowledgeable people.

IANAL.

SneakySh0rty · Apr 6, 2014

swinokur said:
The issue is the loan across state lines. it could be viewed as a violation of 922r according to some pretty knowledgeable people.

IANAL.

Why would it be considered a loan? The way I viewed it was the safekeeping of property. like a storage facility. considering he was not granted usage of weapons, being locked in a safe or locks that he does not have the combination for.

I think the issue would be whether or not, any of his guns are considered banned ALGs. If so, then he cant even transport those into MD so storing them in MD would be illegal as well.

i too am not a lawyer though.

swinokur · Apr 6, 2014

That's why a lawyer should be consulted and not take only the opinions given here by non lawyers.

Minuteman · Apr 6, 2014

swinokur said:
That's why a lawyer should be consulted and not take only the opinions given here by non lawyers.

Yep. Solid advice.

Blacksmith101 · Apr 6, 2014

You could always cosmoline them crate them and place them in bonded storage.

Chriss613 · Apr 7, 2014

I would defiantly confer with a lawyer. Remember this, you are dealing with two sets of laws when dealing with firearms, Federal and state. What you are trying to do may very well maybe a state issue, this is Maryland we're talking about after all. But it may not a Federal issue but again discuss this with you lawyer. According to the ATF's FAQ's Unlicensed Person's when pertaining to firearms (second sentence):

Q: To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA?

A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

https://www.atf.gov/content/firearm...licensed-persons#shipping-firearms-additional

Perhaps your friend could use them for pistol competitions?

240 towles · Apr 7, 2014

how about renting a small storage unit?

monkey · Apr 7, 2014

Your local indoor gun range or dealer in Virginia might offer a service to store your guns for a fee. My local gun range in Maryland offers that service.

gungate · Apr 7, 2014

Every time this question is posted it seems there are different answers. I posted a similar version of this and was told it is no problem.

Blaster229 · Apr 7, 2014

gungate said:
Every time this question is posted it seems there are different answers. I posted a similar version of this and was told it is no problem.

Across state lines though?

bobthefisher · Apr 7, 2014

Does your friend in MD have an HQL? If he doesn't, then you run into breaking MD law, as it could be construed as receiving a handgun.

swinokur · Apr 7, 2014

This is from a post on the High Road:

Let's look at the statutes:

18 USC 922(a)(3), which provides in pertinent part (emphasis added) as follows:
Quote:
(a) It shall be unlawful—
...

(3) for any person, ... to transport into or receive in the State where he resides ...any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State,...

And 18 USC 922(a)(5), which provides in pertinent part (emphasis added) as follows:
Quote:
(a) It shall be unlawful—
...

(5) for any person ... to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person ...who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in ... the State in which the transferor resides..;

Note carefully the words used in those statutes. Words like "transport", "receive", "transfer", "give", and "deliver" are all words that describe possession, not just ownership.

Violation of the federal interstate transfer laws can get the transferor and transferee up to five years in federal prison and/or a fine (plus a bonus of a lifetime loss of gun rights).

So is there no way for someone to store his gun in State other than his State of residence?

One possibility if someone wants to store his gun outside his State of residence and avoid possible problems from making an interstate transfer in violation of federal law, would be to arrange matters in a way that gives no one in the storage State access to it.

Therefore, he might rent a storage locker or safe deposit box to which he alone has a key. Or if he stores a gun with a person, he might keep his gun in locked cases, a locked cabinet or locked safe to which he alone keeps the key or combination.

This is not guaranteed, and I haven't seen any case law or ATF opinions on this. But it is consistent with ATF's instructions for shipping a gun to oneself in care of another person. Specifically ATF has said (emphasis added):
Quote:
6. May I lawfully ship a firearm to myself in a different State?
Any person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in the care of another person in the State where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner “in the care of” the out-of-State resident. Upon reaching its destination, persons other than the owner must not open the package or take possession of the firearm.

And of course there's the issue of a possible violation of state law by transferring a rifle which under state law is not transferable except through an FFL.

Things to think about. That's why you should consider speaking to an attorney before doing this.

__________________

Blacksmith101 · Apr 7, 2014

So it looks like the OP could ship them to himself in care of his friend and his friend could keep the package for as long as necessary as long as he does not open it. Then when the OP comes back he can pick up the package and everything is OK.

Docster · Apr 7, 2014

gungate said:
Every time this question is posted it seems there are different answers. I posted a similar version of this and was told it is no problem.

That's why it's best to go to a lawyer familar with gun laws instead of seeking a dozen 'opinions'.

Or take one's chances with opinions regarding the laws of 2 states and/or the feds.....

Blaster229 · Apr 7, 2014

Blacksmith101 said:
So it looks like the OP could ship them to himself in care of his friend and his friend could keep the package for as long as necessary as long as he does not open it. Then when the OP comes back he can pick up the package and everything is OK.

Until his friends house gets broken into and stolen. Lol

Blacksmith101 · Apr 7, 2014

He was going to store them there anyway.

virginiagunowner · Apr 10, 2014

Hey y'all,

Sorry it's taken me so long to reply to this thread!

I've had a lot of work lately.

Thanks so much for all your replies.

I would like to talk to a MD lawyer, but I don't know if I can realistically afford that. Money is kind of tight right now.

I like the idea of sending the package to my friend "in care of."

Thanks, blacksmith!

My friend in Maryland does have an HQL (or at least, I assume he does since he owns handguns).

He is also eligible to own guns uder the GCA 1968 etc, so that won't be a problem.

My main concerns are:

1) Would this arrangement (giving my friend in MD the guns either trigger-locked, or in a safe or both), be considered an illegal interstate handgun transfer? Or would my friend not having the keys to access the guns make the GCA inapplicable to this situation? I want to make sure that I don't violate the law.

2) With regard to state law, I am pretty sure that Virginia laws won't be a problem, but could either he or I get in trouble under Maryland law?

Also, would it be a good idea to try contacting the Maryland State Police and ask them?

From reading some of the threads on this forum, it seems like the police themselves are confused about the law in many cases, so the answer I get might depend on who happens to answer the phone.

Thanks for any thoughts on this!

Is the following legal?

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

Member

In a State of Bliss

Member

In a State of Bliss

Active Member

In a State of Bliss

Member

Grumpy Old Man

Member

master of puppets

B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

NRA Patron Member

God loves you, I don't.

Durka ninja

In a State of Bliss

Grumpy Old Man

Ultimate Member

God loves you, I don't.

Grumpy Old Man

Member

Users who are viewing this thread

Log in

Forum statistics