To Trust or not to Trust?

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  • Arcamm

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Is it still worth while to get a trust? I haven't followed much about changes that have happened or are about to happen, so I don't know what changes may or may not be coming. I'd like to get some cans and someday, something that I only have to pull the trigger once to burn through the equivalent of a mortgage payment instead of having to pull it a bunch of times.

    Is there a thread here with up to date info?
     

    rbird7282

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 6, 2012
    18,531
    Columbia
    I've only bought two NFA items so far and I would strongly recommend a trust. I will get at least two more stamps. There are many reasons to get a trust, I would talk to a lawyer who is well versed in NFA laws and gun trusts. I used Stouffer Legal in Towson and they were great to work with. They are an IP here.
     

    Porsche

    Around...
    Jul 7, 2010
    125
    Currently trusts are still the way to go. Some of the benefits are that it saves you a ton of time, keeps all your nfa together and has benefits if you plan to let someone else use the items. My form 1 only took 21 days through efile using a trust.
     

    dogbone

    Ultimate Member
    Nov 14, 2011
    2,981
    GTT - Gone To Texas
    One more recommendation for Stouffer Legal here.

    Everyone's situation is different but the only disadvantage I've found with my trust is having to fight the urge to get enough NFA toys to make getting the trust a break even proposition when balanced against the costs of getting the toys without one.
     

    pwoolford

    AR15's make me :-)
    Jan 3, 2012
    4,186
    White Marsh
    I would definitely get one. Saving time is great on form 1's but a trust also helps with ownership/inheritance if you have kids into this hobby too.
     

    outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,815
    Went with this guy for my trust. Did all on line(except for the notarizing). Ran about $250.

    jrobinson@robinsonlaw.biz

    Note: Obama is currently trying to put a halt to NFA Trusts. A word to the wise should be sufficient.
     

    SWO Daddy

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 18, 2011
    2,468
    I would say yes so long as you're prepared to make a bunch of purchases with it before the end of the calendar year.
     

    Drmsparks

    Old School Rifleman
    Jun 26, 2007
    8,441
    PG county
    Note: Obama is currently trying to put a halt to NFA Trusts. A word to the wise should be sufficient.

    Not true. they are talking about limiting some of the time saving benefits of a trust (i.e local leo sign off etc). They are not talking eliminating.

    Remember trusts were created to ensure ready access to NFA items for our corporate overlords and their minions. That will not change.

    The big issue with trusts is sharing items with multiple family members and inheritance. That's the big reason for mine.
     

    SWO Daddy

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 18, 2011
    2,468
    Not true. they are talking about limiting some of the time saving benefits of a trust (i.e local leo sign off etc). They are not talking eliminating.

    Remember trusts were created to ensure ready access to NFA items for our corporate overlords and their minions. That will not change.

    The big issue with trusts is sharing items with multiple family members and inheritance. That's the big reason for mine.

    If the proposed changes go through, the only benefit to trusts will be the control/inheritance aspects. It will actually make the process for obtaining title 2 weapons more difficult.

    Also, I wouldn't be surprised to see the MSP have a "policy change" on signing off Form 1/4's once the bureaucrats realize they can just stop approving them and completely cut off the transfer of title II weapons.
     

    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,866
    Rockville, MD
    Why by the end of the year?
    The BATFE will supposedly propose the new rules by then. They got so many comments that it delayed from June.

    Given the volume and nature of the comments, I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that the proposed rules may not be as rough as people anticipate... remember the much-feared shotgun study a couple years ago, which actually resulted in looser import rules.

    Worst case scenario for trusts is that you have to go back to doing personal transfers and stop transferring to the trust. *shrugs* Bit more management, but not the end of the world.
     

    rob-cubed

    In need of moderation
    Sep 24, 2009
    5,387
    Holding the line in Baltimore
    Trust, but verify... :D

    As others have said, get it while you can and put what you can on it now.

    Even if the laws get changed to require trustees to be fingerprinted/photo'd, the benefits of trusts in passing ownership to your children (without requiring new tax stamps) are still valid.
     

    swinokur

    In a State of Bliss
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 15, 2009
    55,394
    Westminster USA
    One big issue with the BATFE proposed rules is requiring the trust members to have to go through the same LEO signoff and fingerprinting as non trusts. This will add a significant amount of time to purchasing NFA stuff. I assume it only needs to happen when the trust is set up but don't know if it would be required for each NFA purchase. BATFE has put off any action on this until 2015, so probably a good idea to do it sooner rather than later if you're going to do it.

    Another advantage besides inheritance is any named trustee can be in possession of an NFA item. Good for close friends /and /or family

    IANAL
     

    Broncolou

    Active Member
    Jan 22, 2013
    689
    Parkton MD
    Not true. they are talking about limiting some of the time saving benefits of a trust (i.e local leo sign off etc). They are not talking eliminating.

    Remember trusts were created to ensure ready access to NFA items for our corporate overlords and their minions. That will not change.

    The big issue with trusts is sharing items with multiple family members and inheritance. That's the big reason for mine.

    See above.....:thumbsup:
     

    outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,815
    Trust, but verify... :D

    As others have said, get it while you can and put what you can on it now.

    Even if the laws get changed to require trustees to be fingerprinted/photo'd, the benefits of trusts in passing ownership to your children (without requiring new tax stamps) are still valid.

    Only put NFA items into your trust.
     

    anderson76

    Active Member
    Feb 16, 2013
    209
    I would definitely get one. Saving time is great on form 1's but a trust also helps with ownership/inheritance if you have kids into this hobby too.

    If passing your firearms through inheritance is of great importance to you then you might want to reconsider owning firearms in trust.

    As you are probably aware, passing firearms through “inheritance” under MD and under the NFA is a fairly simple affair. For example, the restriction on transferring regulated firearms do not apply for “ the receipt of a regulated firearm by inheritance, if the heir forwards to the Secretary a completed application to purchase or transfer that regulated firearm” Md. Code P.S. § 5-102. Also, the transfer restrictions on Assault Weapons do not apply to inherited Assault Weapons. And finally, under federal law, NFA items can be passed via “inheritance” without being subject to the ordinary transfer restrictions.

    So why do gun trusts pose a problem? Before proceeding further we need a working definition for the word “inheritance”.

    At death, legal title to all of the decedent’s property passes directly to the personal representative. The personal representative ultimately distributes the assets of the decedent’s estate. However, before the personal representative can exercise any powers the probate process must be commenced. If the decedent had a will, meaning he died “testate”, then the will should state who the personal representative is. Then, during the administration of the estate, the personal representative will distribute the decedent’s assets in accordance with the terms of the will. This process is known as testate succession. A person who receives property through testate succession is a legate. If the decedent dies without a will or “intestate”, the law specifies who is the personal representative and who ultimately is to receive assets of the estate. This process is known as intestate succession. A person who receives property through intestate succession is an heir. Therefore, inheritance, as it is generally understood, refers to property received from a decedent, either by will or through the laws of intestate succession. Thus, both a legate and heir can receive an inheritance.

    Now contrast this with what occurs upon the death of the grantor / initial trustee of a gun trust. A trust arises when a grantor transfers legal title to property to a trustee who then agrees to manage the property for the benefit of a beneficiary. The trustee holds legal title to the trust property while the beneficiary holds an equitable interest in the trust property. The point I want to make is that legal title to trust property resides with whoever occupies the office of the trustee. In your typical gun trust (which is nothing more than a living / grantor revocable trust) you are the grantor, you are also the initial trustee, and you might also be a beneficiary. Upon your death, title will pass to the successor trustee (or maybe to co-trustee depending on how it is set up).

    Do you see the difference? Trust property never becomes part of the decedent’s probate estate. It simply stays with the trustee. This is a non-probate transfer. This is not inheritance.
     

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