Need a plumber, ASAP!

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  • FrankOceanXray

    Ultimate Member
    Oct 29, 2008
    12,028
    Are gas WH DIY, too? I shy away from gas stuff... the whole kaboom thing.
     

    GTOGUNNER

    IANAL, PATRIOT PICKET!!
    Patriot Picket
    Dec 16, 2010
    5,492
    Carroll County!
    I just did one. Hardest part was getting it down the basement steps. Whirlpool from Lowes. 10% OFF if ur a Vet or related to one.
    Lowes people rock.
     

    drking2

    Ultimate Member
    Nov 29, 2008
    2,737
    Carroll County
    Ok, so our hot water tank went out this weekend. After waiting well over 24 hours for Michael and Sons (we stupidly signed a home maintenance contract with them right after we bought the house) to show up, we've been quoted an ABSOLUTELY INSANE price to replace a 50 gallon gas hot water tank.

    If you are a licensed plumber, and have experience with tankless water heaters, please please PLEASE message me as soon as you see this. I don't want to go more than a week without hot water.

    Run from Micheal and son, my inside blower quit, they sent out a guy to fix it, was at my house 6.5 hrs, finally decided I needed a new motherboard and power unit. 1400 dollars!!!. I told him to stop, I would maybe just replace the unit. Had a neighbor come in that does HVAC, in 10 minutes he determined the fan had went up. Total cost: 240 dollars. Plus, the Micheal and son guy had dropped my thermostat off the wall and broke it, said "it's ok, wasn't any good anyhow" It was a brand new Nest unit my sons got me for fathers day.

    Nice guy, but totally incompitent. He kept going to his van and calling to ask what to do.

    I would never use/recommend them again.
     

    90gsx

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Apr 12, 2011
    332
    Parkville
    I dont know much about about tankless but regular water heaters are easy enough to do yourself in a couple of hours or less
     

    Infosec Guy

    Active Member
    Sep 20, 2009
    339
    Columbia MD
    Got an independent plumber in, and he seems to know his stuff. He had the burner lit within 10 minutes, only to deliver a little bad news: I've got a small pinhole leak that's dripping into the burner, which is probably why it wouldn't light in the first place.

    Oh joy. $850 to replace the 40 with a 50. Tankless system will have to wait.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
     

    pbharvey

    Habitual Testifier
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 27, 2012
    30,158
    Tankless units are expensive as hell but labor should be no more then a hour .

    A tankless heater almost always requires a new gas line installed directly to the gas meter. They use a LOT of gas but only for a short period of time. They also require separate venting and electrical power wiring. Its not a simple process if done correctly.
     

    pbharvey

    Habitual Testifier
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 27, 2012
    30,158
    Got an independent plumber in, and he seems to know his stuff. He had the burner lit within 10 minutes, only to deliver a little bad news: I've got a small pinhole leak that's dripping into the burner, which is probably why it wouldn't light in the first place.

    Oh joy. $850 to replace the 40 with a 50. Tankless system will have to wait.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

    I just saw you're in Columbia. Ken Griffin Plumbing is good.
    http://www.kengriffinplumbing.com/
     

    rseymorejr

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 28, 2011
    26,018
    Harford County
    This is the quote in question:

    $ 144.14 - Alum Water Heater Pan w/Install of Water Heater
    $ 234.00 - Water Heater Expansion Tank W/Install of New Heater
    $ 337.52 - 3/4" Ball Valve
    $1,349.65 - 50 Gal Gas Water Heater
    $ 175.00 - Plumbing Appliance Gas Permit
    =======
    $2,240.31

    Now, to compare:
    $ 21.00 - Water Tank Drip Pan, Lowes
    $ 50.00 - Utilitech 5-gal expansion tank, Lowes
    $ 20.00 - 3/4" Ball Valve, Lowes (Most expensive option)
    $698.00 - Whirlpool 50 Gallon tank, Lowes
    ======
    $789.00 - Realistic pricing.

    Now, obviously there's going to be a bit of difference for labor, additional copper, etc. But $1,400 worth? I think not.

    Here's the worst part: Thanks to my sticker shock, I immediately said "I'll think about it." As we've sought out other plumbers today, I've also Googled the potential issue, and it may cost as little as $12 in parts to repair.

    SO! If anyone has an honest plumber they'd like to recommend, now's your chance!

    Somebody has to pay for all those TV and radio ads
     

    Infosec Guy

    Active Member
    Sep 20, 2009
    339
    Columbia MD
    A tankless heater almost always requires a new gas line installed directly to the gas meter. They use a LOT of gas but only for a short period of time. They also require separate venting and electrical power wiring. Its not a simple process if done correctly.

    Well, the good news there is that it would only be about 3' of new gas line. The bad news is it would be about 20' of new exhaust/intake vent, and I don't really feel like tearing out a drywall ceiling right now.
     

    pbharvey

    Habitual Testifier
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 27, 2012
    30,158
    Well, the good news there is that it would only be about 3' of new gas line. The bad news is it would be about 20' of new exhaust/intake vent, and I don't really feel like tearing out a drywall ceiling right now.

    People don't realize how many installation restrictions are on these water heaters. Its no where near a slap-it-in kind of thing plus many require thorough annual maintenance.

    What type of regular maintenance does a Rinnai Tankless Water Heater require?

    There are two types of periodic maintenance that your service technician can perform to keep your Rinnai Tankless Water Heater running smoothly:

    The in-line screen filter should be checked periodically for debris (time between filter checks will be dependent on water quality).

    The unit should be flushed periodically (time between flushes will be dependent on water quality) to keep the unit free of scale and lime. This process should be completed by a professional installer. Please contact an installer near you.
     

    rj1974

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 31, 2011
    11,207
    Edgemere , md.
    A tankless heater almost always requires a new gas line installed directly to the gas meter. They use a LOT of gas but only for a short period of time. They also require separate venting and electrical power wiring. Its not a simple process if done correctly.

    My mistake , I thought he was doing a even swap tankless for tankless . You are correct it is much more involved going from one to another . Been there ........Reading comprehension is MY friend :o
     

    Infosec Guy

    Active Member
    Sep 20, 2009
    339
    Columbia MD
    This is the review that I posted on Angie's List:
    =====
    Review Date: September 03, 2013
    Company Name: Michael & Son Services Inc
    Category: Plumbing
    Services Performed: Yes
    * More Weight is given to a review where work has been completed.
    Work Completed Date: September 01, 2013
    Hire Again: No
    Home Build Year: 1971
    Description Of Work: Showed up late for a service call, failed to properly diagnose the problem, failed to repair system. Provided an estimate of astronomical proportions for replacement, not repair, of hot water heater. We waited well over 24 hours for an emergency truck roll.

    Member Comments:
    Based on an earlier Angie's List review, we had some electrical work done by Michael & Sons in the spring of this year. While I'm very happy with that, we've learned since then that we were severely overcharged. However, we'd signed up for a Household Maintenance Contract during that earlier project. So when the hot water tank failed on a holiday weekend, who do you call?

    I called on Saturday morning, but they could not provide me a time when someone could come out until Sunday afternoon. So, we scheduled the appointment for between 2-6 PM on Sunday. At 7 PM, I got a call from the dispatcher stating that they'd not be able to make the run at all, and would Monday work? I reminded them that I'd been waiting over 24 hours already, and no, it wouldn't. The dispatcher said he'd handle it, and then never called back. I ended up calling back at 10 PM, and begging for a technician. The tech called me 30 minutes later, and said he'd be there within an hour.

    So at 11:30, the tech shows up. Very nice, very professional. He comes in, takes a very brief look at the tank, tries to light it once, and pronounces it dead. We started discussing options, and he provided me with an estimate. $2240 to replace the tank and upgrade everything to current code. Thankfully, sticker shock kept me from agreeing to anything.

    I did some research, and found that the total cost for everything that was mentioned in the estimate was less than $800. Furthermore, I was able to research and determine the cause of the failure - a faulty thermocouple unit: $12, and less than an hour's work to replace.

    The M&S tech could have easily said "Oh yeah, here's the problem, let me get that out of the truck right now" and replaced the thermocouple. This would have resulted in a review that said "Yeah, they're expensive, but worth it." The plumber that came out on Tuesday morning was able to do just that, and has now earned all my future business.
    The big blue van is nice. The custom door mats, funny blue slippers, and all the rest are cool. But does it really take $2228 worth of price gouging to maintain that system? Since when are plumbers actually salesmen in disguise?
     

    pbharvey

    Habitual Testifier
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 27, 2012
    30,158
    I bought a tankless water heater on eBay for about 250 and had it plumbed by family which took about and hour. The expensive part was having new wiring put in to run the heater.

    I hope your family member is a licensed plumber & gas fitter and is familiar with the venting requirements. An incorrectly installed gas appliance is a recipe for disaster.
     

    Rich1911

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 8, 2012
    3,839
    I hope your family member is a licensed plumber & gas fitter and is familiar with the venting requirements. An incorrectly installed gas appliance is a recipe for disaster.

    sounds like his is electric - does it have to be vented?
     

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