Need info on Hunting in WV

rob · Aug 27, 2014

A buddy of mine has a farm in WV. He has invited me to go deer hunting with him this fall. While he says he has hunted before, I don't get the impression he has very much experience. He's very much a 'lets just wing it' kinda guy.

I am planning to use my AR15 with a 75gr HPBT bullet, the same ammo I use for high power rifle.

1) Will this be sufficient gun and ammo for deer in WV?
2) What do I need to do in the way of training and licensing to legally hunt on private property in WV?
3) Does anyone have any suggestions on any must have gear or prep?
4) I expect this to mainly be a big learning experience. If I actually get something, I will consider myself lucky.

I really have no clue whatsoever about hunting. My dad used to hunt, mostly duck, but also a little deer and field as well. My older brothers went hunting with him some, but by the time I was old enough, he was pretty much done. So, any advice would be welcome.

Thanks!
Rob.

platekiller · Aug 27, 2014

1) any center fire rifle is legal, remeber with 223 shot placement is important
2) hunters safety course from md will work (mine did) and get a liscense. Not sure what non residents cost.

Seems like in 3&4 you will be ok. Dont set your expectations too high and have fun.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

sxs · Aug 27, 2014

rob said:
A buddy of mine has a farm in WV. He has invited me to go deer hunting with him this fall. While he says he has hunted before, I don't get the impression he has very much experience. He's very much a 'lets just wing it' kinda guy.

I am planning to use my AR15 with a 75gr HPBT bullet, the same ammo I use for high power rifle.

1) Will this be sufficient gun and ammo for deer in WV?
2) What do I need to do in the way of training and licensing to legally hunt on private property in WV?
3) Does anyone have any suggestions on any must have gear or prep?
4) I expect this to mainly be a big learning experience. If I actually get something, I will consider myself lucky.

I really have no clue whatsoever about hunting. My dad used to hunt, mostly duck, but also a little deer and field as well. My older brothers went hunting with him some, but by the time I was old enough, he was pretty much done. So, any advice would be welcome.

Thanks!
Rob.

1) You need to make sure that the 75 grain bullet is a true expanding 'game' bullet. Just because it is a hollow point doesn't make it a good big game bullet. Furthermore, if it's 'what you shoot at the range', unless you are shooting premium ammo (or at least premium handloaded bullets) at the range, it's unlikely your ammo is a good choice for game (most people shoot either target, match or surplus ammo at the range due to cost factors). Case in point: I shoot a 30.06 with a hand-loaded Sierra Game King 165 gr HPBT round. It's a fantastic deer getter. It expands well over a range of velocities, yet holds together well. However, a fairly similar bullet, the Match King 168 gr HPBT is a terrible big game bullet. It is optimized for target shooting (tight tolerences on shape and weight - no consideration for game performance). It doesn't expand reliably like the Game King and the core isn't locked into the jacket allowing the core to separate from the jacket if it does begin to expand. Frankly, it is my opinion that the AR in 5.56 is marginal for deer in any case. Despite my opinions, there are rounds and projectiles that can be purchased that are designed to be used on big game. But just be sure that you are using a true big game type bullet if 5.56 (or .223) is what you choose to shoot. For factory loads, that will almost certainly mean premium hunting ammo but do be aware that some premium ammo is premium MATCH ammo.
core

2) Maryland Hunter's Safety will suffice for hunting on private property (or even most state / national forest in WV)

3) Make sure you get some good hunting gear that you can wear in layers. Temperature can vary from way below freezing especially in the high elevations to 40's or occasionally 50"s during the day and layering allows for adaptation to changing temperatures. DON'T wear ALL your layers when walking in on a cold morning. If you have any amount of walking to do at all, you will likely begin to sweat and if you sweat, when you finally sit down you WILL get cold . Polypropylene is a great choice for a base layer as it will wick moisture from your body (sweat) and just leaving a jacket and shirt open temporarily will dry you out fairly quickly. While expensive, Under Armor works very well. Really good boots are especially important. I prefer Pac Boots (you can remove the liners to dry them more quickly and mine are 3/8" wool which is still fairly warm even when damp or wet) but some find them clunky and there are good non-Pac alternatives out there.

I'm not sure what the exact regulations regarding wearing of Hunter (Blaze ) orange are, but I presume it's required for deer hunting (it is in most areas of most states). But it's a smart thing to do to wear a lot of it whether required or not. For Turkeys or some other animal that may be able to see it it may not be required) However, wear it walking in and out to your hunting area even if you remove it while actually hunting.

Where exactly are you planning on going?

rob · Aug 27, 2014

sxs said:
1) You need to make sure that the 75 grain bullet is a true expanding 'game' bullet. Just because it is a hollow point doesn't make it a good big game bullet. Furthermore, if it's 'what you shoot at the range', unless you are shooting premium ammo (or at least premium handloaded bullets) at the range, it's unlikely your ammo is a good choice for game (most people shoot either target, match or surplus ammo at the range due to cost factors). Case in point: I shoot a 30.06 with a hand-loaded Sierra Game King 165 gr HPBT round. It's a fantastic deer getter. It expands well over a range of velocities, yet holds together well. However, a fairly similar bullet, the Match King 168 gr HPBT is a terrible big game bullet. It is optimized for target shooting (tight tolerences on shape and weight - no consideration for game performance). It doesn't expand reliably like the Game King and the jacket isn't locked into the jacket allowing the core to separate from the jacket if it does begin to expand. Frankly, it is my opinion that the AR in 5.56 is marginal for deer in any case. Despite my opinions, there are rounds and projectiles that can be purchased that are designed to be used on big game. But just be sure that you are using a true big game type bullet if 5.56 (or .223) is what you choose to shoot. For factory loads, that will almost certainly mean premium hunting ammo but do be aware that some premium ammo is premium MATCH ammo.

I was planning on using Match ammo. I guess I need to re-think that. I will have to pick up some game ammo.

I chose 5.56 because I do not have a rifle in a larger caliber.

sxs said:
2) Maryland Hunter's Safety will suffice for hunting on private property (or even most state / national forest in WV)

3) Make sure you get some good hunting gear that you can wear in layers. Temperature can vary from way below freezing especially in the high elevations to 40's or occasionally 50"s during the day and layering allows for adaptation to changing temperatures. DON'T wear ALL your layers when walking in on a cold morning. If you have any amount of walking to do at all, you will likely begin to sweat and if you sweat, when you finally sit down you WILL get cold . Polypropylene is a great choice for a base layer as it will wick moisture from your body (sweat) and just leaving a jacket and shirt open temporarily will dry you out fairly quickly. While expensive, Under Armor works very well. Really good boots are especially important. I prefer Pac Boots (you can remove the liners to dry them more quickly and mine are 3/8" wool which is still fairly warm even when damp or wet) but some find them clunky and there are good non-Pac alternatives out there.

I'm not sure what the exact regulations regarding wearing of Hunter (Blaze ) orange are, but I presume it's required for deer hunting (it is in most areas of most states). But it's a smart thing to do to wear a lot of it whether required or not. For Turkeys or some other animal that may be able to see it it may not be required) However, wear it walking in and out to your hunting area even if you remove it while actually hunting.

Thanks for the info!

sxs said:
Where exactly are you planning on going?

I think my friends farm is somewhere down near Huntington, WV, I am not really sure. I'll find out when I get there...

Rob

sxs · Aug 27, 2014

rob said:
I was planning on using Match ammo. I guess I need to re-think that. I will have to pick up some game ammo.

I chose 5.56 because I do not have a rifle in a larger caliber.

Thanks for the info!

I think my friends farm is somewhere down near Huntington, WV, I am not really sure. I'll find out when I get there...

Rob

Can't give a lot of advice on the Huntington area. I'm much more familiar with the Eastern 1/2 and northern areas of the state. I used to hunt in Pocahontas County a number of years ago.

Make sure you don't forget to take your Hunter Safety card so you can get your license. Also, if it's possible to scout the property before hunting, do so. You'll not only want to try to get an idea where/how the game is moving, but you also need to know where boundaries and landmarks are. In many rural WV areas, cell phone don't work and there is enough forest around to get really lost. It's good to know the layout of the land so you can find your way back easily enough. Also, you need to know where any nearby homes, buildings or live stock may be so you know where you can actually shoot safely. If there is any chance you may have to pursue a wounded animal off the property, you may want to try to get permission (and make it written - in Maryland written is the only legal permission to hunt. Even in areas where verbal is good enough, written makes sure someone doesn't deny giving you permission after the fact). It's been so long since I hunted there, I don't remember if written was required, but whether it was or not....that may well have changed

jr88 · Aug 27, 2014

To hunt deer with a 5.56 cartridge you really should use a soft point ammo. Winchester makes an excellent 64g SP and Black Hills makes a 60g. I would buy some and resight your rifle for this before hunting. Good Luck

davsco · Aug 27, 2014

definitely look online for some pics of deer vital areas. i'm sure the lowly .22 has killed every game animal on earth, but the .223 is clearly not in the class of .308 or .30-06 so shot placement is more important. as is bullet type noted above.

not sure if wva has any mag limit restrictions, you should check.

ChrisD · Aug 29, 2014

Blaze orange is required for deer firearms, 400 square inches minimum I believe, an orange hat does not meet this requirement, a vest does. A Non Resident license with CS/LE stamp & issue fee (both required) without additional buck stamp, or antlerless, muzzleloader, etc. will run $134.00. You can purchase the license online. Here is the DNR website:

http://www.wvdnr.gov/

http://www.wvdnr.gov/Hunting/Hunting.shtm

MontaniSemperLiberi · Aug 31, 2014

If you MUST use .223/5.56, I would concur that you definitely need to use either a soft point (SP) or a true HP (As opposed to an Open Tip Match). I know a number of folks who have had great success with Barnes TSX (Solid copper HP) in the 62 and 70gr variety. Aside from jacket separation, OTM bullets only have a hollow point to increase the ballistic coefficient... they are not designed to aid in jacket expansion in any capacity.

That being said, lots of folks take game with OTM bullets; I've done it myself. But there is a massive difference between a 75gr factory load out of a .223 and a 220gr compressed load out of a .300RUM.

Shot placement will be key as well as the distance you're going to be shooting for that small of a round. It would be HIGHLY irresponsible for you to take a shot unless you can cleanly kill the animal. Add on the inevitable adrenaline ("buck fever"), and IMHO your selection of round is not a wise one considering it is your first time out.

As far as mag limits are concerned, there are none -- but do yourself and everyone else within a mile+ radius a favor and self limit. If you can't bag the deer on one shot, you shouldn't be shooting to begin with. If you need a rapid follow-up because something happened with your first, load another 2-3 rounds max. Mag dumping on a deer because it's the only way you can kill it not only fails ethics, but safety as well... If you need 20-30 or more rounds to kill an animal, you're obviously spraying and praying. Unless you're sitting stationary in the woods only shooting down into a ravine, those bullets are going somewhere.

Even though you're on private land, not mag-dumping and wearing your legally required orange are important for the following reason: People trespass, be it intentionally or unintentionally.

When I was a kid we had a group of folks from VA and NC wander (intentionally, because nobody on the surrounding farms knew them) onto one of my family's farms. I was in a tree stand waiting for the sun to come up over the ridge, and a doe was grazing below me -- I only wanted a buck. Then all hell broke loose, as one of the clowns unloaded his SKS w/ modded magazine at the doe... One of his own party eventually saw me screaming, firing my rifle in the air; but he had dumped 30rds in my direction, never even hit the deer.

Don't worry about the orange impairing your chances of getting something, though. Camo for deer is pointless during rifle season, as it's a relatively recent fad in the spectrum of hunting deer with firearms and it doesn't make any difference. It was cool as a kid dressing up in camo, but now I care more about being comfortable and mobile. 9/10 you'll find me wearing a bright blue Spyder ski parka w/ my orange on top -- I still bag what I want when I go out, no problems. Well paid marketing firms would have you believe otherwise.

Since it sounds like you don't have any idea about the place down by Huntington, I would suggest Google mapping to scope it out as best possible. If it's wide open, which does actually happen here in WV, your caliber choice could be a severely limiting factor.

I'd strongly suggest getting a bunch of deer torso targets with vitals clearly marked and practice at the range(s) you find on the property with Google maps. Keep note of any downhill or uphill shooting, because you'll need to learn to dope your shots. It may look like the same distance as when shooting flat at a range but trigonometry and physics have something else to say on the matter.

So there's my deerslaying cliff notes brain dump... YMMV!

If nothing else, take 79 on your way back and drive Rt 57 between Philippi and Quiet Dell (WV) back and forth @ high speed between dusk and dawn... you WILL get something! :lol2:

dfens42 · Sep 1, 2014

MontaniSemperLiberi said:
If you MUST use .223/5.56, I would concur that you definitely need to use either a soft point (SP) or a true HP (As opposed to an Open Tip Match). I know a number of folks who have had great success with Barnes TSX (Solid copper HP) in the 62 and 70gr variety. Aside from jacket separation, OTM bullets only have a hollow point to increase the ballistic coefficient... they are not designed to aid in jacket expansion in any capacity.

That being said, lots of folks take game with OTM bullets; I've done it myself. But there is a massive difference between a 75gr factory load out of a .223 and a 220gr compressed load out of a .300RUM.

Shot placement will be key as well as the distance you're going to be shooting for that small of a round. It would be HIGHLY irresponsible for you to take a shot unless you can cleanly kill the animal. Add on the inevitable adrenaline ("buck fever"), and IMHO your selection of round is not a wise one considering it is your first time out.

As far as mag limits are concerned, there are none -- but do yourself and everyone else within a mile+ radius a favor and self limit. If you can't bag the deer on one shot, you shouldn't be shooting to begin with. If you need a rapid follow-up because something happened with your first, load another 2-3 rounds max. Mag dumping on a deer because it's the only way you can kill it not only fails ethics, but safety as well... If you need 20-30 or more rounds to kill an animal, you're obviously spraying and praying. Unless you're sitting stationary in the woods only shooting down into a ravine, those bullets are going somewhere.

Even though you're on private land, not mag-dumping and wearing your legally required orange are important for the following reason: People trespass, be it intentionally or unintentionally.

When I was a kid we had a group of folks from VA and NC wander (intentionally, because nobody on the surrounding farms knew them) onto one of my family's farms. I was in a tree stand waiting for the sun to come up over the ridge, and a doe was grazing below me -- I only wanted a buck. Then all hell broke loose, as one of the clowns unloaded his SKS w/ modded magazine at the doe... One of his own party eventually saw me screaming, firing my rifle in the air; but he had dumped 30rds in my direction, never even hit the deer.

Don't worry about the orange impairing your chances of getting something, though. Camo for deer is pointless during rifle season, as it's a relatively recent fad in the spectrum of hunting deer with firearms and it doesn't make any difference. It was cool as a kid dressing up in camo, but now I care more about being comfortable and mobile. 9/10 you'll find me wearing a bright blue Spyder ski parka w/ my orange on top -- I still bag what I want when I go out, no problems. Well paid marketing firms would have you believe otherwise.

Since it sounds like you don't have any idea about the place down by Huntington, I would suggest Google mapping to scope it out as best possible. If it's wide open, which does actually happen here in WV, your caliber choice could be a severely limiting factor.

I'd strongly suggest getting a bunch of deer torso targets with vitals clearly marked and practice at the range(s) you find on the property with Google maps. Keep note of any downhill or uphill shooting, because you'll need to learn to dope your shots. It may look like the same distance as when shooting flat at a range but trigonometry and physics have something else to say on the matter.

So there's my deerslaying cliff notes brain dump... YMMV!

If nothing else, take 79 on your way back and drive Rt 57 between Philippi and Quiet Dell (WV) back and forth @ high speed between dusk and dawn... you WILL get something!

33/55 between say Wardensville and Elkins is good for the road hunting too :lol:

And you're right about the camo, as I recall deer are red/green color blind, so they can't see orange anyway. I wear jeans and a flannel shirt.

bean93x · Sep 1, 2014

I have laid white tail down using federal fusion 62gr in .223 out of my AR. shot placement is KEY

MontaniSemperLiberi · Sep 2, 2014

dfens42 said:
33/55 between say Wardensville and Elkins is good for the road hunting too

And you're right about the camo, as I recall deer are red/green color blind, so they can't see orange anyway. I wear jeans and a flannel shirt.

33/55 can be bad, but I've personally whacked 2 on 57... Earlier this summer, I counted 23 deer alongside the road there. All that wasted jerky and taco meat... :sad20:

bean93x said:
I have laid white tail down using federal fusion 62gr in .223 out of my AR. shot placement is KEY

I know a few people have had success with the Federal Fusion 62gr...

davsco · Sep 2, 2014

93 between 50 and the turnoff to go up to mt storm is a pretty target-rich environment. high speed, hills and curves, and TONS of deer. we even had to stop for a moo cow one day.

sxs · Sep 3, 2014

davsco said:
definitely look online for some pics of deer vital areas. i'm sure the lowly .22 has killed every game animal on earth, but the .223 is clearly not in the class of .308 or .30-06 so shot placement is more important. as is bullet type noted above.

not sure if wva has any mag limit restrictions, you should check.

The book provided when you take Maryland Hunter's Safety has a pretty good illustration of the vital area.

MontaniSemperLiberi · Sep 4, 2014

sxs said:
The book provided when you take Maryland Hunter's Safety has a pretty good illustration of the vital area.

It may give a good idea, but he'd be much better off getting a life-sized target with the vitals marked as well as without... Shoot a few with the vitals visible until you're comfortable, then overlay the one without them marked and go from there so the visualization is in your mind rather than a massively upscaled best guess.

Even better would be to run a set of 20 yard shuttle runs and THEN take your shots to help you fight the adrenaline surge when you put your first deer in the crosshairs. :cool:

dfens42 · Sep 5, 2014

MontaniSemperLiberi said:
33/55 can be bad, but I've personally whacked 2 on 57... Earlier this summer, I counted 23 deer alongside the road there. All that wasted jerky and taco meat...

I know a few people have had success with the Federal Fusion 62gr...

It's pretty bad, they are obviously over populated. They either need more hunters, allow people to harvest more anterless deer, or both.

MontaniSemperLiberi · Sep 9, 2014

davsco said:
we even had to stop for a moo cow one day.

It's a good thing you clarified them as the moo variety, or I would have asked what the local women were doing wandering around on the road... :innocent0

For the 3+ years I lived in Keyser, I never hit a deer on that stretch!

dfens42 said:
It's pretty bad, they are obviously over populated. They either need more hunters, allow people to harvest more anterless deer, or both.

They've done both, still not enough... they need to organize culls and/or implement a sterilization program. The coyote population in many areas is booming as a result, because the deer aren't big to begin with and take forever to get as big as they do. Misinformed folks think the DNR is introducing coyotes to bring the deer into check, but it's a natural increase of already existing populations.

dfens42 · Sep 10, 2014

MontaniSemperLiberi said:
They've done both, still not enough... they need to organize culls and/or implement a sterilization program. The coyote population in many areas is booming as a result, because the deer aren't big to begin with and take forever to get as big as they do. Misinformed folks think the DNR is introducing coyotes to bring the deer into check, but it's a natural increase of already existing populations.

Yeah, and these coyotes are not the tiny western variety, a lot of them apparently are interbred with some wolf lines from up in Ontario.

MontaniSemperLiberi · Sep 11, 2014

dfens42 said:
Yeah, and these coyotes are not the tiny western variety, a lot of them apparently are interbred with some wolf lines from up in Ontario.

They are larger, and I've heard that they've interbred with wolves... I just haven't had the opportunity to talk to on of the regional DNR folks who sits on our Friends of the NRA board about it.

I'm currently waiting on a 14.7" LWRC M6IC-E w/ custom cerakote, engraving, Geissele SSA-E and AAC Blackout 90T to arrive... and I'm going to try and work up a solid subsonic load w/ 70gr Barnes TSX pills (Maybe with IMR Trail Boss?) to take down yotes inside of 100 yards. Loaded for supersonic with Varget, I wouldn't think twice about taking down a whitetail with them.

traveller · Sep 11, 2014

I would suggest you scout the farm with your friend, not only to know the property boundaries, also to see what kind of range for your shots you are looking at.

Rather than trying to hunt with a marginal caliber, consider getting a used deer rifle set up for the job. Wherever you find used firearms, there are always a couple of scoped bolt actions in typical deer calibers available.

If he can show damage from the deer, your friend may be able to apply for a nuisance permit. With the permit, there are fewer restrictions on when and how you can hunt and you may not even need the expensive non-resident permit to do so.

Need info on Hunting in WV

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