AR10 style rifles

foxtrapper · Apr 17, 2014

Ok, now I am thinking just spend the extra a buy an AR10 instead of trying to get an HBAR 6.8 upper. Last time I got a price quote on one was last year and it was something like 1400.00 average price.

So what's good, what's bad as far as brands, and what are general prices. I looked at PSA's selection and they had a Bushmaster at around 1000.00 and the upper end was SIGs at 2100.00, but they only had about 5 AR10 style rifles total.

As to the caliber thing, the 7.62 x 51 vs .308, is that like 5.56 vs .223, in that if it is marked the 7.62 it will take either, but if it's marked .308, it only takes .308?

I was thinking of taking a trip to Shrewsbury to Gun Bunker to buy one ( AR10is still cash and carry!), but I want to research it first, then see what they have, then see about my finances. Gun Bunker cause they would have the 20 round mags LOL. I may need another month to make the money, so that will give me time.

Oh yeah and even though I'd be spending more money on this than a 6.8 upper, it would feel better. I nice FU to the Frosh machine by me having yet another whole gun, and one to hunt deer with in Cecil LOL.

nedsurf · Apr 17, 2014

I got to finally check out in person an M&P 10 at freestate recently. That solidified it being on the short list to buy. I think that ar10 rifles are being chambered in other short action calibers, mostly the ones that derived from the .308.

E.Shell · Apr 18, 2014

foxtrapper said:
Ok, now I am thinking just spend the extra a buy an AR10 instead of trying to get an HBAR 6.8 upper. Last time I got a price quote on one was last year and it was something like 1400.00 average price.

Knowing that you hunt and trap and are one of the VERY few people around that will actually use the rifle away from the range and more than 10 feet from the truck, I'd suggest the AR-10 is an ugly, awkward beast to carry around.

Everything that makes the AR-15 delightful is lost when scaled up. I carried one for two days in Garrett County scouting/hunting coyotes and when I got home, it went to the back of the safe. The guy I bought it from wanted it back one day and I was very happy to comply.

So what's good, what's bad as far as brands, and what are general prices. I looked at PSA's selection and they had a Bushmaster at around 1000.00 and the upper end was SIGs at 2100.00, but they only had about 5 AR10 style rifles total.

The only reason to pay $2100 for a SIG is if you like reading that word.

DSA isn't too bad, DPMS is probably the leader, but it really depends on what you want it for. If for precision, I'd look at DPMS, if for a utlity/battle rifle, the field opens up and if it's properly made, it's GTG.

One thing to be aware of is that not all AR-10 magazines are equal and there are "Armalite style" mags and "DPMS style" mags.

As to the caliber thing, the 7.62 x 51 vs .308, is that like 5.56 vs .223, in that if it is marked the 7.62 it will take either, but if it's marked .308, it only takes .308?

It is the same as the 5.56 x .223, except different.

A 5.56 generates more pressure and the chamber throat is longer than a .223, so if it is marked "5.56", it will safely handle both .223s and 5.56s.

The .308 generates more pressure than 7.61x51, so if a rifle is marked ".308", it will safely handle both 7.62x51s and .308s. Most AR-10s are intended to run (lower) 7.62x51 pressures, so check carefully.

I was thinking of taking a trip to Shrewsbury to Gun Bunker to buy one ( AR10is still cash and carry!), but I want to research it first, then see what they have, then see about my finances. Gun Bunker cause they would have the 20 round mags LOL. I may need another month to make the money, so that will give me time.

Handling one for a while may change your mind. Put an empty mag in it and try to carry it with one hand or cradle it across your forearm or lay it up over your shoulder...Try not to throw it down and kick it, just politely hand it back to the clerk...

Oh yeah and even though I'd be spending more money on this than a 6.8 upper, it would feel better. I nice FU to the Frosh machine by me having yet another whole gun, and one to hunt deer with in Cecil LOL.

Lots to be said for FU Frosh, but I'd personally consider a larger caliber for the AR-15 before going to an AR-10.

Good luck!

davsco · Apr 18, 2014

Dpms has a new g2 which is supposedly closer to ar15 dimension. No personal experience. But heard good things.

FlatsFlite · Apr 18, 2014

I think you need to shop elsewhere for a 6.8 upper. You can pick one up for under $600 all day long.

I highly recommend an AR Performance barrel. Mine shoots one hole off the bench at 100 yards, clover leafs at 200 yards and it only set me back about $225 plus the bolt.

Mdeng · Apr 18, 2014

Ed Shell speaks the truth about the AR10's weight. I love shooting my Armalite but it is a beast and the added weight of a good optic just adds to it. If your going to hunt with it you will also want a very good sling.

I have helped a friend build a lighter version on the DPMS pattern. He chose a complete upper from CMMG with a 18 inch barrel. The barrel is a light profile and cuts the weight some but it's still a heavy weight.

Have you considered buying the parts and building your own 6.8 upper? There are plenty of members here that would be willing to lend a hand.

Speed3 · Apr 18, 2014

AR10s are heavy for sure. I carried mine in the woods ONCE, granted its a 24" brl but not sure a shorter brl will make that much if a difference.

I would agree with the posts above, maybe stick to the AR15 platform and go with your intended 6.8?

smdub · Apr 18, 2014

I've never carried mine around hunting (its 15# w/ glass but its built heavy for the bench) but here are listed weights:
Colt 6920: 6.9-7.0# (AR15)
M&P10: 7.7#
DPMS Oracle: 8.3#
Colt LE901: 9.5# (not sure if that includes the 5.56 adapter block or not)
PTR91SC: 9.5# (not really an AR10

)
Rem 700 SPS: 7.25# (not really an AR10 either

)

I've held a M&P10 on a couple occasions and its pretty darn light. Anyway, AR10s can be around a pound more than a 'similar' AR15 (similar barrel profile and furniture - no point comparing a metal quadrail forend + heavy barrel AR10 to a pencil barrel + magpul furniture AR15.) Only 1/2# more than a thin barrel 700 bolt action. Is one pound difference all that big a deal? You're not humping it miles and miles across the desert heat in the middle east.

I think many (most?) AR10s are built on the heavy side (guilty as charged) so they get a bad rap in that area. Its not necessarily the case. The AR15 will always have a slight advantage on weight. The upper/lower/BCG are physically smaller and thus can always be a little bit lighter. But its not an enormous difference.

CommandoDuke · Apr 18, 2014

I've had good experience's with the AR10. It wouldn't shoot that cheap India ammo and I had an older one with no forward assist. You definitely want one of the new models with a forward assist. That said, these days I'm playing around with a 7.62x39 upper. I've seen a lot of these .300 Blackout ACC uppers. I'd like to here from the guy who was coyote hunting in Garrett. I'm trying to get into coyote hunting.

Sirex · Apr 18, 2014

I am not trying to sway, but an alternative is Noreen makes a fixed stock AR in .270. I was looking at a couple on GB around the $1500 mark. Just an alternative. GL

E.Shell · Apr 18, 2014

smdub said:
I've never carried mine around hunting (its 15# w/ glass but its built heavy for the bench) but here are listed weights:
Colt 6920: 6.9-7.0# (AR15)
M&P10: 7.7#
DPMS Oracle: 8.3#
Colt LE901: 9.5# (not sure if that includes the 5.56 adapter block or not)
PTR91SC: 9.5# (not really an AR10)
Rem 700 SPS: 7.25# (not really an AR10 either)

The weight is only about a third of the problem. The major problem is that there is not one friendly surface anywhere near the balance point. Everything is a damn corner. The rifle nearly demands to be carried with two hands, not something I want to be forced to do in rough country.

I've held a M&P10 on a couple occasions and its pretty darn light. Anyway, AR10s can be around a pound more than a 'similar' AR15 (similar barrel profile and furniture - no point comparing a metal quadrail forend + heavy barrel AR10 to a pencil barrel + magpul furniture AR15.) Only 1/2# more than a thin barrel 700 bolt action. Is one pound difference all that big a deal?

The M700 has a broad, smooth area at the balance point and is quite easy to handle and carry in any of several ways. Again, absolute weight isn't the whole problem and I did not mention weight in my post above.

You're not humping it miles and miles across the desert heat in the middle east.

LMAO, that's pretty funny, but so what? Please do come back and discuss this one day when you've actually carried yours around some, maybe a few miles through cover on the 45o hills in western MD.

I think many (most?) AR10s are built on the heavy side (guilty as charged) so they get a bad rap in that area. Its not necessarily the case. The AR15 will always have a slight advantage on weight. The upper/lower/BCG are physically smaller and thus can always be a little bit lighter. But its not an enormous difference.

The AR-15 in a mid-weight rifle is much easier to handle and with a heavier barrel profile, it will balance right in front of the magwell. The advantage of the ability to carry the rifle under it's center of mass cannot be overstated.

CommandoDuke said:
I've had good experience's with the AR10. It wouldn't shoot that cheap India ammo and I had an older one with no forward assist. You definitely want one of the new models with a forward assist. That said, these days I'm playing around with a 7.62x39 upper. I've seen a lot of these .300 Blackout ACC uppers. I'd like to here from the guy who was coyote hunting in Garrett. I'm trying to get into coyote hunting.

There are coyotes all over MD. Now is an excellent time to call them with a hen turkey call.

This is a 35# Garrett Co. 'yote:

Klunatic · Apr 18, 2014

I have seen a few DPMS AR-10s and don't care for them in the least. Lots of FTE, FTF with these guns. I have an Armalite AR-10 and I am pleased as punch with it. That said it is a heavy rifle, 12lbs with scope ect. I use a single point sling to carry when walking and have little trouble with it. Granted I am am 6'2 225 but the sling really helps spread the load. + Buy new and you get a lifetime warranty with the Armalite. I snagged mine pre-craze for $1,200.

foxtrapper · Apr 18, 2014

To clarify, I'd be walking in/out of nearly 19 acres of woods with very little grade ( probably 10 feet at most from stream bottom to hill top LOL. Ok, I might be dragging a deer too, but I think I will drag it just to where I want to gut it a little bit away from the deer shooting zone area, and bring the rifle back to the truck and walk back. I guess I can drag a button buck or small doe back with the rifle slung on my back. Hopefully with a .308 and a proper shot placement, the hunk of venison will drop in it's tracks.

But, ok, I'll keep looking for the heavy barrel 6.8 upper too. Seems PSA gets good reviews. Anywhere else that I can order a nice heavy barrel one and have it shipped to my door? I could try to do a build myself too, but need some help, like one person who knows what they are talking about to mentor me.

rico903 · Apr 19, 2014

I recently bought a Windham 16.5" barrel at 7.55lb. One of the lighter ones. Lifetime warranty and takes Pmags. The Smith is 7.71 but I didn't like the long length with the odd flash hider. I don't think the gun is all that heavy. Lighter than any of the others I've seen and about $1100-$1300. I had a Sig 716 but at 9.3 lbs it was too heavy. Mine has a collapsible stock but I think I'm going to put a skeleton stock on it.
Be careful with Armalite as one model will take Pmags but the original needs proprietary mags and they are expensive.
As far as weight goes some say what's a 1/2 a pound or 1 or 2 but put that much weight in your pocket or on your belt and walk around with it and you'll know soon enough.

browning guy · Apr 19, 2014

I have a few AR-10 style rifles I have carried one all over western Maryland chasing Yotes also carried one stalking speed goats for miles in Wyoming.
Guess what I figured out...Ed Shell is right!

I love my DPMS 260 it's a fine range gun and it is a great deer rifle if I am stationary shooting over bean fields. For active stalking I will take a lighter streamed line bolt gun every time !

Also look at the 6.5 Grendel as another option for your upgrade.

johnnyb2 · Apr 19, 2014

If you really like a 6.8, there MANY choices for well under what you quote. For example, RRA offers a 6.8 Coyote Carbine Upper complete, for only $740. Or you could get their 6.8 mid-length for $595 and have a precision SS barrel installed like someone mentioned and keep it under $900 OR just have one custom built for you. You can avoid the extra weight of the AR10 and stay happy with your AR15 platform.

Just some thoughts :-)

RCH · Apr 19, 2014

Ed is spot on with the info, as usual. An AR10 is a beast in the weight department. My A4carbine (16 inch barrel) with a Vortex Viper PST 1-4x weighs in at 10 pounds 13 ounces... empty. Add another pound for 20 rounds of .308/7.62x51. For a hunting trip, you will load fewer rounds, but I think that the overall package may be still pushing it in the weight department. I found that a good padded sling helps a lot.

foxtrapper · Apr 20, 2014

I just looked at the coyote carbine HBAR upper at RRA, complete at 740.00. Why is it so much more than the other 6.8 uppers? Is RRA's stuff all top notch stuff? How long do they usually have that upper in stock for? Like is it a limited thing?

johnnyb2 · Apr 20, 2014

RRA

foxtrapper said:
I just looked at the coyote carbine HBAR upper at RRA, complete at 740.00. Why is it so much more than the other 6.8 uppers? Is RRA's stuff all top notch stuff? How long do they usually have that upper in stock for? Like is it a limited thing?

They build to order, so, those options are always available. Mmmmm I didn't think that they were THAT expensive really. I own a RRA, and while not entry level, they are well built, will last a long time and are reliable.

Your getting a nice Free Float hand guard, light weight, which normally sets you back at LEAST $150 - $200, a low profile gas block, a Smith Vortex muzzle flash, which is normally about $50+ much better than an A2 for flash hiding, especially at night. It almost completely extinquish's any flash. And a high quality barrel, which on their lower, they guarantee 3/4 MOA at 100 yards, If you subtract the cost of the FF HG and the Smith Flash, your paying about $550 or so for the upper. With that kind of accuracy on the barrel, seems like a pretty good deal to me. You can build a lower for under $250 with a nice ALG Combat trigger and have a complete rifle for under $1000 or use the lower you have now, or pay them $1270 for the whole kit and kabootle :-).

But sounds like all you need is the upper, right? or wrong?

foxtrapper · Apr 20, 2014

Yes, I just need an upper. I have a complete Del-ton HBAR 5.56, so the lower of that is what the upper would go on to.

AR10 style rifles

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