Trust Successor Question

Three lawyers enter, only one survives!

ericoak said:

Three lawyers enter, only one survives!

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That is what they have judges for.

If attorneys agreed on everything, we would not have courts, judges, juries, etc. Then again, sometimes the attorneys do agree but a client wants to be stubborn as hell.

anderson76 said:

Rusty set up your trust. You have not been prosecuted for an NFA violation or other weapons crime. Therefore, Rusty must know what he talking about? Is that how it works?

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That is good,,, can Rusty site any case law where he prevailed in court with an NFA /trust issue??

Straightshooter said:

And , your expertise on the subject is????

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Lets say I tell you that I managed to pass the MD bar exam. Lets say I also tell you that I am an expert in gun trusts. Next I go to this gun forum and dispense all kinds of legal advise – because hey that’s what I do. And finally my signature contains a disclaimer instructing readers that my post are not to be construed as legal advice – cuz that’s how I roll (gotta get my CYA on).

Would this qualify me as an expert? How would you know otherwise?

Let's say we do know that at least one of the combatants here IS a lawyer and we know nothing about your "let's say" line. Who's word would you take if let's say you, had a brain?

anderson76 said:

Lets say I tell you that I managed to pass the MD bar exam. Lets say I also tell you that I am an expert in gun trusts. Next I go to this gun forum and dispense all kinds of legal advise – because hey that’s what I do. And finally my signature contains a disclaimer instructing readers that my post are not to be construed as legal advice – cuz that’s how I roll (gotta get my CYA on).

Would this qualify me as an expert? How would you know otherwise?

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Advice on the internet is worth exactly what you pay for it. Think I have that in my sig.

Everybody here is a legal expert, even those that have not passed the bar exam or gone to law school. Also, just because somebody has passed the bar exam does not mean he/she is knowledgeable in specific areas of the law. Then, not all attorneys are created equal, etc.

The great thing about the internet (sarcasm) is that it allows people to use screen names instead of their real name. So, trying to confirm anything about them, like whether or not they are even licensed to practice law in the State of Maryland, is difficult.

The thing about a trust is that most people have no idea whether it is valid or whether it does what they want it to do. When people seek the help of an attorney, it is to 1) draft a trust that is valid in the State of Maryland, which shouldn't be all that difficult, and 2) draft a trust that effectuates their wishes.

For me, the toughest part about drafting my NFA trust was figuring out who to make co-trustees with me (i.e., who I wanted to share my NFA items with right now), deciding who is going to be the trustees when I pass on, and at what point the assets should be distributed to the beneficiaries (i.e., my kids).

Has the ATF ever challenged the validity of a NFA Trust? According to the November 30, 2010 entry on this website, the answer is NO.

http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/category/title-1-firearms

Of course, in true attorney fashion, the author wants to scare the crap out of the reader such that the reader retains the attorney to draft the trust. Yes, NFA trusts have to be thought through a little more than with a regular Revocable Living Trust because the co-trustees cannot be prohibited and they must be old enough to possess the item in question. Same goes for the trustees after the grantor passes on, and the beneficiaries if the NFA items are to be left to the beneficiaries. Of course, the trustee does have the power to sell trust items, so the NFA items could always be sold and the proceeds distributed to a beneficiary that is too young to posses an NFA item.

Lastly, I may or may not be an attorney. Those that know me in this thread, know the real answer. lol

Straightshooter said:

Let's say we do know that at least one of the combatants here IS a lawyer and we know nothing about your "let's say" line. Who's word would you take if let's say you, had a brain?

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Actually we know all 3 are lawyers.

ericoak said:

Actually we know all 3 are lawyers.

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So, I should take your word for it? Next thing you know people will be claiming to be doctors.

Straightshooter said:

So, I should take your word for it? Next thing you know people will be claiming to be doctors.

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Norton has confirmed anderson is an attorney.

ericoak said:

Well Norton has confirmed anderson is an attorney. Does that work for you?

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Not getting combative. Maybe you missed the smile. it still comes back to his question which is should you take the word of anyone on an internet forum. I've never met Norton, but yes, I'd take his word.

Straightshooter said:

Not getting combative. Maybe you missed the smile. it still comes back to his question which is should you take the word of anyone on an internet forum. I've never met Norton, but yes, I'd take his word.

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Yea I already fixed it, I misread it!

No foul. No butt hurt.

fabsroman said:

The great thing about the internet (sarcasm) is that it allows people to use screen names instead of their real name.

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Not so sure about that.

ericoak said:

Norton has confirmed anderson is an attorney.

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Now, we just need to find a judge to settle this "dispute". Of course, we might need to start with non-binding arbitration, then litigation, then an appeal or two so we can get our money's worth.

There is only one active attorney in Maryland with my last name. Question is whether he has the same first name. lol

Just did a search for my name on Facebook, and nobody else with my first and last name comes up in the US. lol Might have to change my name to John Doe. lol No anonymity for me.

ericoak said:

Not so sure about that.

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Yes. Ultimately, a person using the internet can be tracked down. Some, more so than others. However, the every day Joe the Plumber would probably have a hard time tracing an ISP address and coming up with a name and physical address associated with it. Now, try tracking down the ISP address of a hacker. Willing to bet some of the best trackers out there might struggle trying to track down some of the best hackers out there.

If not sure who to put in as the Trustee, just put yourself. A co-Trustee may be risky as divorces do happen. If one divorces both you and your former partner in life have equal access to add or remove trust property if both of you are Co-Trustees. As for me I put my wife in as Co-Trustee as she bought my first can and willingly allowed me to set about this path of can creation. But that was my decision only...don't copy me.

The successor will assume responsibility of the trust when the Trustee moves on or become ineligible to handle the trust until the beneficiaries become legally of age. All these are specified in the Trust declaration. If you to move on I am sure the Trust items will sulk for a few seconds then happily move on to the next in line.

md_al said:

If not sure who to put in as the Trustee, just put yourself. A co-Trustee may be risky as divorces do happen. If one divorces both you and your former partner in life have equal access to add or remove trust property if both of you are Co-Trustees. As for me I put my wife in as Co-Trustee as she bought my first can and willingly allowed me to set about this path of can creation. But that was my decision only...don't copy me.

The successor will assume responsibility of the trust when the Trustee moves on or become ineligible to handle the trust until the beneficiaries become legally of age. All these are specified in the Trust declaration. If you to move on I am sure the Trust items will sulk for a few seconds then happily move on to the next in line.

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As the grantor of the trust, you should be able to edit the trust. So, you can remove a co-trustee at any time you wish. Not only that, but the trustees have a fiduciary duty to the beneficiaries of the trust, which prevents them from removing trust property from the trust. So, even if the vindictive wife sells trust property to get back at you, she had better have sold it for close to FMV and she had better have put the money back in the trust. Otherwise, she has violated her fiduciary duty to the trust.

I have no issue putting my wife and brothers on my trust as co-trustees. Heck, they are who I am using as successor trustees too.

My kids are not getting the NFA items until they turn 25. It gives them a little time to think about it. Also, if any of them is prohibited, then some of the NFA items will be sold such that close to 1/3 of the FMV of the NFA items at the time of my death has been converted to cash and that portion of the funds will be paid into the testamentary trust created via my Last Will & Testament, which has specific instances and ages wherein trust income and/or principal will be distributed to the beneficiaries.

My clients often ask me "Well, what did you do?" I have to respond that one size does not fit all and my viewpoint on this matter and others most likely does not mirror theirs.

fabsroman said:

Now, we just need to find a judge to settle this "dispute". Of course, we might need to start with non-binding arbitration, then litigation, then an appeal or two so we can get our money's worth.

There is only one active attorney in Maryland with my last name. Question is whether he has the same first name. lol

Just did a search for my name on Facebook, and nobody else with my first and last name comes up in the US. lol Might have to change my name to John Doe. lol No antimony for me.

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I can spare 3%

anderson76 said:

Perhaps you are more concerned with the idea that engaging in further debate on this topic will only serve to expose deficiencies in an area of law in which you purport to hold subject matter experience?

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And you brought what to this conversation. Gun trusts are some of the most misunderstood trusts anyone can have. I have had a few discussions about them. My official stance, is if you feel safe with your gun trust, then that's fine, but you better be sure, like 100% sure.

I'm not going to discuss this matter any further. I stand by my position.


Jim Smith

md_al said:

If not sure who to put in as the Trustee, just put yourself. A co-Trustee may be risky as divorces do happen. If one divorces both you and your former partner in life have equal access to add or remove trust property if both of you are Co-Trustees. As for me I put my wife in as Co-Trustee as she bought my first can and willingly allowed me to set about this path of can creation. But that was my decision only...don't copy me.

The successor will assume responsibility of the trust when the Trustee moves on or become ineligible to handle the trust until the beneficiaries become legally of age. All these are specified in the Trust declaration. If you to move on I am sure the Trust items will sulk for a few seconds then happily move on to the next in line.

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As grantor of the 'revocable trust', you can, at any time, remove a trustee without reason or cause. As it was explained to me(getting my CYA on).