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  • Bald Fat Guy

    Active Member
    Oct 7, 2014
    418
    Another thread got me thinking, but it was enough of a drift to start a different thread.

    Suppose an item :

    From orig mfg was a complete lower reciever, but had never been assembled with any upper at all before being delivered to 007/SOT to be Form 4 made into a grandfathered under 29in SBR . In Md.

    Switch mental gears : Under NFA , one can render an SBR temporarily into non-NFA configuration, and while not in possesion of components to revert to NFA form, cross state lines w/o a 5320.20 .

    SO:

    In it's default non-NFA configuration should this Item be/ become a Handgun or Rifle ? It started life as an "Other" , and has only ever had bbls of less than 14in , which in Md make it a "Handgun" . So for it to visit other states without documentation does it need to have the butt stock removed or a longer bbl.


    Before jumping to conclusions would this scenario be different if an "Item" started life as a Pistol ( Scorpion, or Ruger Challenger let's say) and then was Form 4'ed to an SBR ? What if any would be the dividing points ?
     

    Klunatic

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 28, 2011
    2,923
    Montgomery Cty
    There are a bunch of threads on this in the NFA section. Some are many pages long but here is a condensed version.

    You cannot "make" your lower a pistol if it was already in a rifle configuration. A virgin lower may be made into a pistol and then an SBR but not the other way around.

    You can put a 16" upper on your lower and cross state lines without a for 5030.20 as long as you don't have the SBR upper in your possession.

    Currently the NFA will not approve a MD SBR application <29" OAL. You can apply for a >29" OAL SBR get it approved and then change the configuration to less than 29" and still be legal with the Feds. The rub is with MD even on pre 10/13 lower. The sh!tily written law is murky at best on the legality of making a less than <29" OAL SBR with a grandfathered receiver which would make it a Copy Cat Weapon (CCW). Technically, under the law if you had a CCW prior to 10/13 it could be <29" OAL and if you bought a lower prior to 10/13 it could have been made into a CCW before 10/13. That being the case then you "could" be legal in MD with an SBR that was form 1 after 10/13 if the lower was purchased prior to 10/13. The burden on MD would be to prove your lower wasn't a CCW prior to 10/13. You are rolling the dice on this one if you change the configuration after being approved by the NFA to less than 29" in MD.
     

    Wayne1one

    gun aficionado
    Feb 13, 2011
    3,127
    Bowie, MD
    Another thread got me thinking, but it was enough of a drift to start a different thread.

    Suppose an item :

    From orig mfg was a complete lower reciever, but had never been assembled with any upper at all before being delivered to 007/SOT to be Form 4 made into a grandfathered under 29in SBR . In Md.

    Why and how would a complete lower be on a Form 4?
    (not sure if you can even do this since it was not barreled, caliber, barrel length etc probably would be needed. Not sure if any manufacture sells new NFA lowers stripped complete or other for that matter)

    Maryland/NFA Branch doesn't play the grand daddy game so that's out too...
    (to be clear you are only grandfathered if your rifle was already built in to said config prior to 10/1/13).
     

    Bald Fat Guy

    Active Member
    Oct 7, 2014
    418
    The Form 4 was submitted pre Oct, and aproved as <29in .

    Had never been assembled as rifle before becoming a < 14in bbl SBR aka pistol in Md.
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 22, 2009
    59,775
    Bel Air
    The Form 4 was submitted pre Oct, and aproved as <29in . Had never been assembled as rifle before becoming a < 14in bbl SBR aka pistol in Md.

    Technically, you cannot assemble a rifle <29" now. It is a "new manufacture". That said, I can't imagine going after people doing this is something prosecutors are going to want to tackle. You submitted info to the ATF, paid a tac, waited. You passed the background check. Would be tough to prosecute. Of course, the State has a bottomless budget and you do not. Weigh your options.
     

    Klunatic

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 28, 2011
    2,923
    Montgomery Cty
    The Form 4 was submitted pre Oct, and aproved as <29in .

    Had never been assembled as rifle before becoming a < 14in bbl SBR aka pistol in Md.

    I think you mean a FORM 1 was approved as an SBR. A Form 4 is to transfer a completed NFA item such as a SBR, Machine gun or suppressor. A Form 1 is the approval to make your own NFA item.

    Any barrel over 10.5" would make the SBR >29" OAL.
     

    Bald Fat Guy

    Active Member
    Oct 7, 2014
    418
    No , I meant Form 4 , I specifically avoided a Form 1 , as it would not have returned before 10/01/13 , and I wanted it to unambigously exist before 10/01 .
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    If it existed as a legal SBR prior to 10/1/13, it is legal now with any OAL.

    BUT, you may not be able to transfer via Form 4, as it is a banned firearm due to being a copy cat.

    Just like a previously owned non-HBAR AR.

    The handgun versus rifle is being tested in court. But it is in two different parts of the COMAR. So they may not be mutually exclusive
     

    Wayne1one

    gun aficionado
    Feb 13, 2011
    3,127
    Bowie, MD
    Who form 4s a lower, and why would it be faster than a form 1 pre 10/1/13? What did you put for OAL, barrel length etc....
     

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