Submitted Today to MSP & ATF

NateIU10 · Jul 30, 2015

dblas said:
The bill passed, it takes affect Oct 1, on that day, say goodbye to AK SBRs.

I don't understand this comment?

DC-W · Jul 30, 2015

NateIU10 said:
I don't understand this comment?

http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/webmga/frmMain.aspx?pid=billpage&tab=subject3&id=hb0614&stab=01&ys=2015RS

dblas · Jul 30, 2015

NateIU10 said:
I don't understand this comment?

Once SBRs come off of the definition of handgun, and are no longer under the purview of the HRB, then SBRs go back to the copies requirement (AK are banned by name and thus an AK SBR will then be banned (again)), as well as the copy cat requirement (which applied anyway)

dblas · Jul 30, 2015

Also an interesting question, will those SBRs that are on the list be removed, since they are no longer under the purview of the HRB? If so, then any AK SBRs on the list go automatically to the banned list (Named firearm).

NateIU10 · Jul 30, 2015

DC-W said:
http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/webmga/frmMain.aspx?pid=billpage&tab=subject3&id=hb0614&stab=01&ys=2015RS

Right, I don't understand what that has to do with "saying goodbye to AK SBRs."

Synopsis: Altering the definition of handgun for purposes of provisions relating to the Handgun Roster Board to exclude a shotgun, a rifle, a short-barreled rifle, a short-barreled shotgun, or an antique firearm from the definition.

So an SBR or SBS does not have to be on the roster on 10/1/2015. They're still handguns for the 77r requirement and criminal law sections. I don't understand the comment.

dblas · Jul 30, 2015

NateIU10 said:
Right, I don't understand what that has to do with "saying goodbye to AK SBRs."

So an SBR or SBS does not have to be on the roster on 10/1/2015. They're still handguns for the 77r requirement and criminal law sections. I don't understand the comment.

Criminal law is for use in a crime.

Public safety governs sale.

NateIU10 · Jul 30, 2015

dblas said:
Criminal law is for use in a crime.

Public safety governs sale.

Except the provisions of MD law regarding the entirety of the Assault Long Gun, Assault Pistol, and Copycat bans are in Criminal Law § 4.

Still, this law does not change PS § 5-101 definition of Handgun, which is any firearm with a barrel less than 16" in length.

sleepingdino · Jul 30, 2015

Should we be buying AK pistols and filing the Form 1 or purchasing an SBR'ed AK pistol before the deadline if we were ever planning on getting one?

Of course, there is always cheeking the Sig Brace

NateIU10 · Jul 30, 2015

sleepingdino said:
Should we be buying AK pistols and filing the Form 1 or purchasing an SBR'ed AK pistol before the deadline if we were ever planning on getting one?

Of course, there is always cheeking the Sig Brace

I'm very interested in dan's interpretation and why he would think so. I would say no, it will get easier after October 1 for Form 4 SBR/SBSs.

dblas · Jul 30, 2015

NateIU10 said:
Except the provisions of MD law regarding the entirety of the Assault Long Gun, Assault Pistol, and Copycat bans are in Criminal Law § 4.

Still, this law does not change PS § 5-101 definition of Handgun, which is any firearm with a barrel less than 16" in length.

It will be interesting to see what MSP does with this.

NateIU10 · Jul 30, 2015

dblas said:
Once SBRs come off of the definition of handgun, and are no longer under the purview of the HRB, then SBRs go back to the copies requirement (AK are banned by name and thus an AK SBR will then be banned (again)), as well as the copy cat requirement (which applied anyway)

dblas said:
It will be interesting to see what MSP does with this.

IDK what they think they can do based on it, but if you have heard anything I'm all ears. We already have to sue them on something else (outside of the 29") so I'm ready to go. MSP has full blown insane without legal basis for too long.

dblas · Jul 30, 2015

NateIU10 said:
I'm very interested in dan's interpretation and why he would think so. I would say no, it will get easier after October 1 for Form 4 SBR/SBSs.

The prevailing thoughts and discussion in Annapolis during this bill was that since the change is in the Public Safety Article, albeit in section 5-401, that MSP will take it and apply the named ban list from 5-101 since SBRs, and SBSs will no longer be classified as handguns in 5-401. Hence back to the named ban list, and thus no more AK SBRs.

Like I said, it will be interesting to see how MSP enforces this.

NateIU10 · Jul 30, 2015

We can barely afford one lawsuit, let alone 3, but so be it. Push comes to shove we have to do what we have to do.

erwos · Jul 31, 2015

I'm with you, Nate. I don't see how the bill has the outcome that Dan is positing. If anything, it should be good for us, as it specifically treats SBRs and SBSs separately from rifles and shotguns... further evidence that the legislative intent was not to cover SBRs under the term "rifle".

Besides, if the MSP wanted to take the position that SBR AKs are copies of AKs, they don't need that bill to do it.

Jaybeez · Jul 31, 2015

public safety 5-401 is the handgun roster board, what this law changed. it bo longer allows srs and sbs to be handguns for the purpose of roster approvals.

public safety 5-501 deals with dealer licenses and 77r regutated transfers. it also defines a sbr or sbs as any firearm with a barrel under 16" inches.

criminal law 4-201 has a third definition of handgun that "includes short barreled rifle and shotgun". the section deals with criminal prosecution of wear and carry violations ect.

i've been reading all 3 since march. im still f#&(!"@ confused as the what the implications of this change will be. has their been any comar changes anounced yet?

edit. public safety 5-201 also deals with srbs ans sbs

unshat · Jul 31, 2015

Thanks for doing all this Nate! I direct everyone I can to you guys and look forward to giving Engage more of my money to support the cause! The Form 4 on my Tirant should be coming back any day now.

Pmbspyder · Aug 3, 2015

So, at the risk of sounding like an idiot (and being admittedly confused), does this have anything to do with being able to sbr to less than 29"? If not, where do we stand on that?

cap6888 · Aug 3, 2015

Pmbspyder said:
So, at the risk of sounding like an idiot (and being admittedly confused), does this have anything to do with being able to sbr to less than 29"? If not, where do we stand on that?

This is the question I have too. Although on the surface, I would agree with Nate and Erwos that removing "SBR and SBS" from the handgun definition is a step in the right direction.

swinokur · Aug 3, 2015

As of now SBR are still subject to the copycat provisions..

OAL 29" or greater.

fingers crossed.

erwos · Aug 3, 2015

cap6888 said:
This is the question I have too. Although on the surface, I would agree with Nate and Erwos that removing "SBR and SBS" from the handgun definition is a step in the right direction.

Well, it helped us for the roster. A different definition is used for other parts of MD law.

And, yes, the issue at hand is whether SBRs would be considered rifles for the purposes of the copycat tests. If EA can get relief on that, we'd get back SBRs < 29" and with FH+FS.

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