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  • Minuteman

    Member
    BANNED!!!
    draft - in the works... your thoughts appreciated.


    Start by looking at what our founding fathers warned us about a two party system.


    John Adams said:

    There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties, each arranged under its leader, and concerting measures in opposition to each other. This, in my humble apprehension, is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution.

    George Washington agreed, saying in his farewell presidential speech:

    The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism. The disorders and miseries, which result, gradually incline the minds of men to seek security and repose in the absolute power of an individual; and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction, more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of Public Liberty

    Without looking forward to an extremity of this kind, (which nevertheless ought not to be entirely out of sight,) the common and continual mischiefs of the spirit of party are sufficient to make it the interest and duty of a wise people to discourage and restrain it.

    It serves always to distract the Public Councils, and enfeeble the Public Administration. It agitates the Community with ill-founded jealousies and false alarms; kindles the animosity of one part against another, foments occasionally riot and insurrection. It opens the door to foreign influence and corruption, which find a facilitated access to the government itself through the channels of party passions. Thus the policy and the will of one country are subjected to the policy and will of another.

    There is an opinion, that parties in free countries are useful checks upon the administration of the Government, and serve to keep alive the spirit of Liberty. This within certain limits is probably true; and in Governments of a Monarchical cast, Patriotism may look with indulgence, if not with favor, upon the spirit of party. But in those of the popular character, in Governments purely elective, it is a spirit not to be encouraged. From their natural tendency, it is certain there will always be enough of that spirit for every salutary purpose. And, there being constant danger of excess, the effort ought to be, by force of public opinion, to mitigate and assuage it. A fire not to be quenched, it demands a uniform vigilance to prevent its bursting into a flame, lest, instead of warming, it should consume.

    Then jump ahead and listen to what a formerly radical American group such as the Black Panters are also saying about this greater threat:

     

    Minuteman

    Member
    BANNED!!!
    founding-fathers.jpg
     

    dontpanic

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 7, 2013
    6,636
    Timonium
    But if we fight among ourselves, we ignore the Oligarchy that really rules this country. It does not matter which party is in power, they will always get thiers.
     

    EL1227

    R.I.P.
    Patriot Picket
    Nov 14, 2010
    20,274
    Good background info

    I just started reading Keeping Our Republic: Principles for a Political Reformation, the basic premise is ...

    There is something wrong with our politics that elections cannot solve. For nearly twenty years, the American people have tried to mind their own business at home while carrying on a seemingly futile search for the right combination of R's and D's in Washington. That search will not end until we address the roots of our political disorder: the progressive abandonment of our republican principles and heritage. Only a political reformation calling us back to the wisdom of our fathers and the founding documents of our nation can truly free us from the deeply-entrenched, bipartisan ruling class that is bankrupting and degrading us. Only a political reformation can "secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity . . . ."

    It's along the same lines of what you are thinking. Little 'r' republicanism broken down into six chapters.

    • Equality
    • Responsibility
    • Honor
    • Justice
    • Lawfulness
    • Prudence

    I was hoping to see 2A prominently mentioned, but it's more of a subtext with dire consequences. A remedy understood, but only a whispered acknowledgment in the context of what happens if we're not able to implement a political reformation that can "secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity . . . ."

    It's a thought provoking reference, but not an end-all/be-all remedy.
     

    tball

    Ultimate Member
    May 20, 2010
    2,135
    St. Augustine, Florida
    We are Americans!

    We are American's! We are a unique people, made up of all religions, races and cultures. We have to stop allowing ourselves to be categorized into political parties, races or religion and think of ourselves as Americans. We must do what is right for our country. America is the most generous country in the world. That is because of who we are as a people. When we allow ourselves to be divided into categories, it takes away our strength as citizens of this great country. We all need to get involved by keeping informed of what is going on in the world and in our country. We must talk to one other about current events, voting, writing our representatives to let them know your position on upcoming legislation, support good candidates who will uphold our Constitution and the founding principles of our country.
     

    Venge

    Active Member
    Dec 6, 2013
    419
    Frederick Co.
    You're an optimist, aren't you? :) I like to be optimistic about things too, and I do try. One thing I'm realistic about is human behavior.

    I've tried this before; I mean nonpartisan discourse. In fact, I try to approach every conversation with someone who doesn't know me without identifying my "box," but what I've found is that that tactic only works when the person already agrees with me.

    When he doesn't agree, it goes the same way, every single time.

    "What, you think x?? You're f(x)!!"

    You can be independent of the bipartisan positions all you want, and that will keep a fresh perspective (for you) as long as you're honest about it. However, the average person doesn't care about it. The average person wants to draw a line in the sand, pick his side (based on the day's arbitrary concept dictated by someone else) and pour a concrete bunker around it. From that moment on, the person is intellectual, morally, philosophically and, by some definitions, practically useless.

    I hope I'm proven wrong someday. I think it will take something HUGE. Black-swan huge.
     
    Last edited:

    Minuteman

    Member
    BANNED!!!
    Thanks for the analysis. Problem is that 'they' want us in one of two camps - blind folded, in a concrete box.

    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences
    attending too much liberty than to those
    attending too small a degree of it.

    - Thomas Jefferson
     

    Venge

    Active Member
    Dec 6, 2013
    419
    Frederick Co.
    Problem is that 'they' want us in one of two camps - blind folded, in a concrete box.

    Absolutely agree. I think you have a preaching to the choir problem though. Anyone who's going to be receptive to what you're saying has already decided not to play by the two-party rules. Anyone who has already decided to won't be receptive. Fact is, it take a lot of effort to think independently. It's not easy.
    How many people do you know opt for the hard route over the easier one? :rolleyes:
     

    Minuteman

    Member
    BANNED!!!
    I am an optimist, but also a realist.

    I've lived in America, and some real bad countries; I know what it's like to have it good, and what it could be.

    As to preaching to the choir, this thread is just a collection point to shape and solidify a concept that is noble but largely lost. I appreciate your contributions.


    At this moment there are 350 people on this site, about half of them are guests. Many are visitors from other 'churches'; everyone welcome to sip the unvarnished truth. Mixed metaphors, but you see my point. :)
     

    Afrikeber

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 14, 2013
    6,729
    Urbana, Md.
    Exellent argument/discussion. This is on point and has been something I have discussed often with those who are open minded enough to discuss with. I truly believe our country is on a neoliberal path of globalization benefitting the elite while we argue amongst each other as to who is liberal or conservative, democrat or republican, etc. In the interim the working class lose their ability to decide for themselves and dependency on government or global based corporate entities become more prevalent.

    Opponents of neoliberalism commonly argue these following points:

    Globalization can subvert nations' ability for self-determination.
    Accountability to the stakeholders, who depend upon the service provided by the privatised entity, is lost as a consequence of business secrecy, a practice that is normally adopted by private investors.

    The replacement of a government-owned monopoly with private companies, each supposedly trying to provide the consumer with better value service than all of its private competitors, removes the efficiency that can be gained from the economy of scale.
    Even if it could be shown that neoliberal capitalism increases productivity, it erodes the conditions in which production occurs long term, i.e., resources/nature, requiring expansion into new areas. It is therefore not sustainable within the world's limited geographical space.

    Exploitation: critics consider neo-liberal economics to promote exploitation and social injustice.
    Negative economic consequences: Critics argue that neo-liberal policies produce inequality.
    Increase in corporate power: some organizations and economists believe neoliberalism, unlike liberalism, changes economic and government policies to increase the power of corporations, and a shift to benefit the upper classes.

    There are terrains of struggles for neoliberalism locally and socially. Urban citizens are increasingly deprived of the power to shape the basic conditions of daily life.

    Trade-led, unregulated economic activity and lax state regulation of pollution lead to environmental impacts or degradation.

    Deregulation of the labor market produces flexibilization and casualization of labor, greater informal employment, and a considerable increase in industrial accidents and occupational diseases.
     

    G O B

    Ultimate Member
    Nov 17, 2007
    1,940
    Cen TX
    70% of the floor time in Congress is devoted to attacking the other Party. 70% of what each Party says about the OTHER Party is TRUE! I do believe that an honest accounting of the actions of both Parties would yield enough evidence for a conviction of high treason!
     

    EL1227

    R.I.P.
    Patriot Picket
    Nov 14, 2010
    20,274
    RedState's Erick Ericson NAILED it ...

    Thanks for the analysis. Problem is that 'they' want us in one of two camps - blind folded, in a concrete box.

    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences
    attending too much liberty than to those
    attending too small a degree of it.

    - Thomas Jefferson

    Filling in for Rush on Friday ...
    The Competitive Disadvantage of Principle

    In essence, the Democrats and many establishment Republicans, have constructed a complicated system to keep the middle class from ever competing with them and their children. The upper income earners and elite, whose children are members of the “Lucky Sperm Club,” can give privilege, benefits, and jobs to their children. Chelsea Clinton and Luke Russert can get great gigs with NBC because of their dads. The children of the rich now get massive access through their parents’ campaign donations and political involvement. The parents, in turn, through campaign donations or their positions in government, can also construct Rube Goldberg legal farmeworks to keep those beneath them on the economic scale from ever advancing.

    It's India's caste system without being called such; engineering and maintained by career politicians who have aggrandized themselves, their progeny, patrons, and cronies ...

    In other words, the United States is increasingly taxing the middle class to subsidize the middle class. All the talk about the poor and what the safety net is designed to do for the poor overlooks that the government has taken it upon itself to keep the middle class from falling into the poorer classes of society.

    In short, individuals in the Middle Class recognize that if they cut the strings on the safety net underneath them and take their own risks to make their way in the world, they are putting their own family at a competitive disadvantage to their neighbors who refuse to cut the strings.

    A stable society depends on a stable Middle Class. A subsidized Middle Class is inherently unstable. When the really rich and the really poor are upset, rarely does the society apple cart itself get upset or overturned. But when the Middle Class is upset, you can bet the apple cart will be overturned. And in Washington, DC, neither the Democrats nor the Republicans are offering policies to put the Middle Class back in ownership of their own lives. The resentment will continue until it boils over or changes are made to put the social order back as it was intended — using the social safety net to help the poor, not subsidize the Middle Class.

    So, is it time to ...
     

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    Minuteman

    Member
    BANNED!!!
    Project Apple Cart and Operation Dino came out of these discussions. For anyone that wants to make a difference, one way to do it is to see if Dino is the best option for you. As I see it we only have a few more months to strategize.


    --------
    "Thanks for keeping it American!
    -Jeff Babcock
    “Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you,
    Jesus Christ and the American G. I.
    One died for your soul; the other for your freedom”."
     

    Mightydog

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    We are American's! We are a unique people, made up of all religions, races and cultures. We have to stop allowing ourselves to be categorized into political parties, races or religion and think of ourselves as Americans. We must do what is right for our country. America is the most generous country in the world. That is because of who we are as a people. When we allow ourselves to be divided into categories, it takes away our strength as citizens of this great country. We all need to get involved by keeping informed of what is going on in the world and in our country. We must talk to one other about current events, voting, writing our representatives to let them know your position on upcoming legislation, support good candidates who will uphold our Constitution and the founding principles of our country.


    As you've seen, it is hard to keep the basic values that made/make America when the current crop of immigrants have no desire to become Americans!!! They have no thought of assimilating into the fabric of America. It's "give me my free money (which I'll send home), let me fly my own flag, I don't want to and won't learn English and I'll insist everything be printed in my language and that you provide translators (at your expense) or I'll scream discrimination. That's why we need to establish a national language of English, a national flag that has a criminal offense if desecrated and a requirement to learn English. Oh yea...and limited stays if you do not want to become a American citizen. God bless America!!!
     

    pcfixer

    Ultimate Member
    May 24, 2009
    5,953
    Marylandstan
    I am an optimist, but also a realist.

    I've lived in America, and some real bad countries; I know what it's like to have it good, and what it could be.

    As to preaching to the choir, this thread is just a collection point to shape and solidify a concept that is noble but largely lost. I appreciate your contributions.


    At this moment there are 350 people on this site, about half of them are guests. Many are visitors from other 'churches'; everyone welcome to sip the unvarnished truth. Mixed metaphors, but you see my point. :)


    So, How is this "D" state do we nullify laws that are bad and not constitutional? Taking laws to court doesn't seem to work!!
     

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