Spyderco Native 5 in S110V and Blue FRN Handles

Spyderco Native 5 in S110V and Blue FRN Handles; Anyone heard any news as to when this knife will be out?

Bet that sucker will be expensive

Bafflingbs said:

Bet that sucker will be expensive

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Yup... I wouldn't carry it either because I wouldn't want to mess it up.

Summer allegedly, should be around the same msrp and street price(around $100) as the manix2 s110v i. The same configuration. It's a tool, an affordable and great one at that, if you don't carry it you are missing out.

Bafflingbs said:

Bet that sucker will be expensive

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I can understand why you would say that given how much the Native 5 sprint run w/ S110V steel and carbon handles cost. But as previously mentioned it should be less than the similarly featured Manix 2 - at least I hope so.

alucard0822 said:

Summer allegedly, should be around the same msrp and street price(around $100) as the manix2 s110v i. The same configuration. It's a tool, an affordable and great one at that, if you don't carry it you are missing out.

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Cool. Will be watching.

That's really good, considering how much a knife with s90v steel cost. I was eyeing the bench made Osbourne with the s90v steel. That sucker is $260+

I want it. I also feel the same way tho... Wouldn't want to carry it so I didn't mess it up. I know all the crazy things my spyderco tenacious goes through on a daily basis... Would want to do it to an expensive knife.

http://www.knifecenter.com/item/SP1...satin-plain-s110v-blade-dark-blue-frn-handles

This is a great knife, lightweight and available now. Just a little bigger than the native.

Necessary Evil said:

http://www.knifecenter.com/item/SP1...satin-plain-s110v-blade-dark-blue-frn-handles

This is a great knife, lightweight and available now. Just a little bigger than the native.

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Already have it - and this is this knife (Manix 2) that has sold me on S110V. It is as sharp, or almost as sharp, as VG-10, as far as I can tell. I probably should just be happy with the Manix 2; don't really need another Native 5. But ... what can I say?

dreadpirate said:

Already have it - and this is this knife (Manix 2) that has sold me on S110V. It is as sharp, or almost as sharp, as VG-10, as far as I can tell. I probably should just be happy with the Manix 2; don't really need another Native 5. But ... what can I say?

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Can say having a few manix2s(including the S110VLW) and an older native(handled the 5), they compliment each other very well, may have some overlap in their abilities, but are designed for different roles. For those that haven't experienced a high vanadium/high hardness steel, it just doesn't wear, it can take a decent fine razor edge, hold it for a while, but once it stabilizes into a sharp working edge, it can cut miles of cardboard and end up just as sharp as when you started. Obviously it takes a while to sharpen, and the corrosion resistance and resistance to edge damage like chipping and rolling aren't much different from more common S30v, the chart topping edge retention is what makes it a supersteel. The manix2 is a compact utility/work knife, high thumb ramp, lots of texture, deep choil and grip, broad blade, strong ambi lock. Basically everything about it is designed to keep your hand secure, and apply a lot of pressure to the blade in about the smallest lightest package possible with the versatility to choke up on the blade, although the rear choil is the primary spot for your finger being deeper and more secure. The XL version expands the other way, adds a heel hook for an even better grip a larger blade better suited for heavier utility work, versatile enough for outdoors or even tactical use.

The Native better fits the role of an average-sized 2.5-3" EDC personal knife. It's smaller, not as broad, blade shape is about identical(basically perfect). The thumb ramp is a flat shelf, less secure than the ramp on the manix, but easier to move your thumb around for better control, the edge is placed lower for better control, the front choil is the primary spot to put your index finger, the long shallow rear finger groove for middle finger, giving a full grip with a small handle and further improving control. The midlock also suits the design well, where the Manix2's BB lock basically requires anchoring the heel end of the handle in your palm, made very awkward by 3" and smaller handles. The midlock can work with 1 hand, but primarily with 2, is ambi, strong and simple, the disadvantages of slower closing, either by pushing the lock with thumb, and closing the blade with index, or by using both hands doesn't matter as much in a lighter EDC role.

The 3 knives basically fill out a near complete set with the versatility of a dozen other blades, they aren't simply copies of each other in various sizes, they are ideally suited in a range of roles from light EDC for the Native, jobsite utility work for the Manix 2, and heavier outdoor or some tactical roles for the XL. So yea, long story short, everyone needs both, and an XL too

I would love a Manix 2 XL - and even better - a Manix 2 XL black on black with S110V steel.

dreadpirate said:

I would love a Manix 2 XL - and even better - a Manix 2 XL black on black with S110V steel.

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S90V/s110v compared to S30V adds a LOT more Vanadium that produces the incredibly hard vanadium carbides that gives these steels their wear resistance. This increases the wear resistance tremendously, easily double that of S30V in my blades. It does so at some expense primarily to toughness. S110V is an improvement on S90V, slightly better wear resistance, much better corrosion resistance, similar toughness. The toughness is the primary limitation, it's only around the level of 440C, less than 154CM, and a lot less than S30V. It takes a LOT of work to sharpen, and while the working edge lasts forever, like most CPM SXXV steels it doesn't polish to a fine edge all that well, it loses a fine razor edge much faster than the working edge, and mine has micro-chipped and rolled relatively easily. This kinda limits it's usefulness in larger knives like the Manix XL IMO, and S30V would be the better steel, although Elmax is an improvement over S30V in all areas, primarily toughness and ease of sharpening/polishing, although still falls way short of S110V in wear resistance.

alucard0822 said:

It takes a LOT of work to sharpen, and while the working edge lasts forever, like most CPM SXXV steels it doesn't polish to a fine edge all that well

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wonder how it would fare on the wicked edge. never had a blade not take a mirror polish and be shave sharp

Awesome - thanks.

alucard0822 said:

...but once it stabilizes into a sharp working edge...

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Please explain.

Butcher said:

wonder how it would fare on the wicked edge. never had a blade not take a mirror polish and be shave sharp

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I'm using basically an Apex with Diamond, Silicon carbide, and Aluminum oxide stones to profile, sharpen, and if desired, polish. Then polishing/stropping on a leather belt on a 1x30 power sander loaded with green (Alox / Crox honing/polishing compound) and then buff with clean leather. Sic stones are my favorite, they cut fast and clean like diamond, but wear to expose new grit and cut just as fast till the stone is worn out, unlike diamond that usually seems to get finer as crystals are fractured or pulled off of the substrate. Aluminum oxide isn't as hard, and cuts slower and finer. For a 154CM knife, I can match the angle and sharpen to a clean 600 grit edge in maybe 2 or 3 minutes, only takes 5 to change the angle a couple degrees, then 10 minutes to hone/polish up to 2kgrit, and finish on the belt. S30V takes about twice as long, S110v can be ridiculous, to even the edge and get a 35degree bevel(factory was just under 40) took about 1/2 an hour on SiC and diamond stones, any stone below 240 grit cut the same, the grit just couldn't dig any deeper despite being larger. It can be polished, but more a satin like S30V than a bright mirror like VG10.

Alox stones cut like they were twice the number they were, then instead of a couple minutes on the belt to set the burr and polish it, took almost another 1/2 hour. By hand with Alox stones on a jig, would have taken hours, freehand on an Arkansas stone would have probably taken days. Now it just stays sharp, I only use Sic stones to match the angle, and finish at 400, which only takes 5 minutes depending on how chewed the edge is, then another 10 minutes to strop. The toothy edge holds up for me better than finely polishing it, and cuts better. The edge doesn't come back much from stropping alone, unlike Elmax that can usually come back perfect 5 or more times before you need to hit it with a stone.

Yoshi said:

Please explain.

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After sharpening and stropping, you end up with a polished relief bevel, usually a slightly steeper micro bevel just at the edge, then a microscopic extremely thin burr extending off of the edge.


The final stages of stropping and polishing thin and straighten this burr, and polish the angled bevel behind it, so the tiny burr initiates a cut, and the material slips easily around the polished edge bevel to pull apart without stressing the burr, this is how you get a ridiculously sharp knife, and an advantage some fine grained steels that polish well have. Of course the first thing to get damaged or worn is that tiny microscopic burr leaving a sharp clean "working edge" that can still cut well, but not as impressively sharp as it could with that tiny burr intact to initiate the cut. Being S110V and other similar steels don't wear much, the burr folds over, chips or breaks off like most any other steel, but the sharp wedge behind it then takes a LOT of abrasion before it deforms or "wears" enough to dull. This is what I mean by the edge stabilizing.

If you spend the time to sharpen , polish and strop it, then split hairs, push cut tissue paper and do all the other cool carnival tricks blade nerds do. After a few days of use, especially if you cut anything tough like rope or cardboard, it quickly looses that level of sharpness, and settles to a level of sharpness more than adequate for daily use, it degrades much slower at this point that the initial finely stropped edge did. Rope or cardboard cutting tests are popular over at bladeforums, basically graphing and counting the number of cuts vs pressure needed. With something like S110V, you might get say 10 cuts rising rapidly from less than 5# to settle around 10#, the force required over the next few hundred cuts slowly requires more pressure up to 20# where it is considered dull, and in need of sharpening. If the edge burr rolled, but didn't chip or break off, you may be able to straighten it by stropping alone, really tough steels like 3V and Elmax resist breakage/chipping so well, you can strop it back to hair popping sharp several times, but it doesn't work nearly as well, or as many times as steel that isn't as tough on the microscopic level, like S110V.

Necessary Evil said:

http://www.knifecenter.com/item/SP1...satin-plain-s110v-blade-dark-blue-frn-handles

This is a great knife, lightweight and available now. Just a little bigger than the native.

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one of my favorite all time EDC knives.

What is the best blade steel, bar none?

I don't think there is a best for everything. A surgeon needs a scalpel, a razor needs a sharp edge. I use serrated blades that will tear through a seatbelt and almost never need sharpening. Likely three different steels for those applications.