Need of advice on gun registration

Warpspasm · Mar 25, 2015

A friend of mine inherited a pistol from an elderly family member and I would like to buy it from him to go along with another blued one that I already own. It's a Colt .380 Government MK IV Model 80. It was made in 1984. As far as we can tell, it has never been registered before. I'm not sure when mandatory registration began in Maryland. His family member may not even have been a Maryland resident when he purchased it. I want to purchase the gun and have it properly registered with Maryland. I'm not sure on how to go about doing that. I guess my fear is, I'll take the pistol to MSP barracks to have it registered and I'll be breaking the law somehow by being in possession of an unregistered firearm. Or, the MSP will confiscate the gun and I'll be out my money and the gun will be gone. Can somebody please tell me the PROPER way to handle this. I like things done correctly and legally.

Inigoes · Mar 25, 2015

You would go about it the proper way if you have your HQL, and went to the MSP barracks.

The other option, go to an FFL. You still will need your HQL.

Whether the gun has been registered before is immaterial. Since the handgun predates 1985, it does not have to be on the handgun roster.

Rack&Roll · Mar 25, 2015

The person who inherited the Colt will bring it to the MSP Barracks, not you. You will meet the seller there at the same time with a $10 personal check or USPS Money Order (no cash)

Here is info I put together to do an MSP Barrracks transfer:

http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=171142&highlight=Newbie+guide

Warpspasm · Mar 25, 2015

The pistol is not registered to the guy who owns it now. How is there a transfer? Wouldn't it just be a bill of sale and me registering it?

Inigoes · Mar 25, 2015

Warpspasm said:
Wouldn't it just be a bill of sale and me registering it?

Don't even need that, but documentation is good to have.

Warpspasm · Mar 25, 2015

There is none to be had, unfortunately

Rack&Roll · Mar 25, 2015

There is no such thing as a private sale of a handgun in MD. The gun does not own itself. The owner must accompany you to the MSP to do paperwork or to a gun store to do paperwork with you there, or the owner may sell it to the FFL at a gun store, or consign it for sale there.

Done properly, the executor of the deceased man's estate would be responsible for transferring ownership of the Colt to your friend . If that was not done, your friend ought to consult a lawyer before proceeding.

Biggfoot44 · Mar 25, 2015

Unless your friend inhereted it before 1996, if not it needed to have been transfered to your friend by the Representive (aka executor) of the Estate.

Warpspasm · Mar 25, 2015

As far as I know he got it many years ago. Before 1996.

Biggfoot44 · Mar 25, 2015

IF your friend recieved the gun in a private transaction pre 1996, then you would just need to do "normal" transfer to you. MSP or FFL , you needing HQL, etc .

Threeband · Mar 25, 2015

Warpspasm said:
... I'm not sure when mandatory registration began in Maryland. ... I guess my fear is, I'll take the pistol to MSP barracks to have it registered and I'll be breaking the law somehow by being in possession of an unregistered firearm. Or, the MSP will confiscate the gun ...

To this day, Maryland does not have "mandatory registration".

Many people believe handguns must be "registered" to be legal, but I think that's only true in Illinois and New York. Perhaps other states, but not Maryland.

It is perfectly legal to possess a handgun which is not "registered".

There has never been a requirement that Marylanders "register" their handguns.

For years, Maryland has been building a database of transfers, but that is not quite the same thing as the sort of true registration you're thinking of.

I believe they started keeping records of dealer transfers back in the '60s, and gradually over the years, the database has grown to include more and more handguns.

But there was never a requirement that Marylanders "register" handguns they already owned before the database was begun. Those guns are still legal.

Until 1996 private face to face handgun sales were legal, and those were not "registered" in the database. There has never been a retroactive requirement to enter those pre 1996 transfers into the database.

Until 2013, people moving here from other states were not required to "register" their handguns. There is no retroactive requirement to enter pre-2013 imports into the database.

FFL holders may still import handguns without entering them in the database.

So there are a LOT of perfectly legal handguns which are owned by Marylanders which are not in the database of transfers.

That's because the database only records transfers, not possession (except for post-10/1/13 new residents).

The MSP knows this, and they will not raise an eyebrow over a 1984 gun that's not in their database yet. They will run a trace of the serial number to see if it's stolen, and they will check you for warrants, but no one will be arrested for "possessing an unregistered handgun", because there is no such crime.

And of course, once you do the transfer, the gun will be in the database.

Pinecone · Mar 27, 2015

Uuh, WRONG.

MD DOES have mandatory registration. At least for people establishing residency in the state after Oct 1, 2013, as per FSA2013 law.

For person who were residents BEFORE that date, there is no requirement to register handguns purchased while they were resident in another state.

And there is technically no mandatory registration of handguns purchased BY MD residents, you will find that the process of purchasing causes you to "voluntarily" register said handguns.

Threeband · Mar 27, 2015

Pinecone said:
Uuh, WRONG.

MD DOES have mandatory registration. At least for people establishing residency in the state after Oct 1, 2013, as per FSA2013 law.

For person who were residents BEFORE that date, there is no requirement to register handguns purchased while they were resident in another state.

And there is technically no mandatory registration of handguns purchased BY MD residents, you will find that the process of purchasing causes you to "voluntarily" register said handguns.

Not "Wrong", sonny-boy.

Go back and READ what I wrote, small change.

At several points I specifically pointed out the new mandatory registration for new residents since 10/1/13.

Do I really need to quote my own post and highlight those points in red?

Do not say I am "wrong" then "correct" me by repeating the very things I said.

By the way, the bit about "voluntary registration" there on the form is not an Orwellian assertion that registration is voluntary.

That statement is there because the Form 77 is actually a dual-use form. It is a form which is used for two bureaucratically separate processes.

1) It is used to process a transfer in which a change of ownership occurs. The resulting "registration" is not claimed to be voluntary.

2) It is used to enter a firearm into the registration database when it is not being transferred between owners.

Number two is a separate and different purpose. It's not a transfer of ownership. In the second case, registration really is voluntary. The true bureaucrat can't use a "Transfer" form for a process which doesn't involve a transfer, so they correctly note the same form serves a second function, voluntary registration.

WeaponsCollector · Mar 27, 2015

Nothing good can come from registering guns.
(I am not a lawyer!)

Pinecone · Mar 28, 2015

Threeband said:
To this day, Maryland does not have "mandatory registration".

It is perfectly legal to possess a handgun which is not "registered".

There has never been a requirement that Marylanders "register" their handguns.

Until 2013, people moving here from other states were not required to "register" their handguns. There is no retroactive requirement to enter pre-2013 imports into the database.

First sentence is NOT true. There is now mandatory registration for people becoming residents for the state after 10/1/2013.

The last sentence quoted, you state that UNTIL 2013, so even with your own words, you show that there is now such mandatory registration.

Second sentence - true, you may have non-registered handguns. But that does not mean there is not some form of mandatory registration.

You do also point out several times, that there is no retroactive requirements to register handguns or FTF transfers prior to 10/96. True, those do not need to be registered.

But as I said, MD DOES have mandatory registration, for SOME people (new residents).

trickg · Mar 28, 2015

Question: has anyone ever been asked in an official capacity to show their transfer paperwork for any handgun they had with them? To my knowledge, there is absolutely no requirement for a person to even maintain any kind of transfer paperwork at all.

What the law is, and what's enforceable in any kind of meaningful way, are two completely different things. If a tree falls in the woods and the Maryland State Police were never aware the tree existed in the state in the first place, did it make a sound?

trickg · Mar 28, 2015

Pinecone said:
But as I said, MD DOES have mandatory registration, for SOME people (new residents).

This is another one of those laws that is totally dependent upon the honesty and open disclosure of the resident, and it's utterly impossible to enforce in any kind of meaningful way due to the fact that we aren't required to present any transfer or registration information to anyone. The ONLY time this would even matter is if the gun was used during the commission of a crime, and then the resident has bigger problems than whether or not they openly documented their guns with the state when they moved here.

If someone moves to the state and simply does not comply with the law, then how would the state ever know they had any handguns to begin with?

Threeband · Mar 28, 2015

trickg said:
Question: has anyone ever been asked in an official capacity to show their transfer paperwork for any handgun they had with them? To my knowledge, there is absolutely no requirement for a person to even maintain any kind of transfer paperwork at all.

...

That's right: you're not required to keep the paperwork. No one will ask to see them. I do keep mine.

In some states, Illinois and New York I believe, and perhaps others, a handgun must be registered to be legal. "Unregistered" = "Illegal". That is not true in Maryland.

Maryland does not have mandatory registration as I have said. As I further pointed out, there is a new, narrow exception for new arrivals since 10/1/13, but the fact is Maryland does not otherwise have mandatory registration in general, across the board.

Because Maryland does not have mandatory registration in the sense Warspasm the OP was worrying about, no one who lived here before 10/1/13, not he nor you, trickg, nor even pinecone need worry about possessing an "unregistered" handgun.*

That's because Maryland does not have mandatory registration, as Illinois and New York do. I may have said that already.

*Disclaimer: This applies only to those legally competent to possess a handgun.

Further, it must be noted that Maryland does have mandatory registration of machine guns.

Any statement made by this writer, to the effect that Maryland does not have mandatory registration, shall not be construed as applying or referring to motor vehicles operated on the public roads, nor to watercraft operated on public waterways within the state.

It must further be borne in mind that Maryland has mandatory registration of convicted sex offenders.

I believe registration of dogs is mandatory in Maryland.

trickg · Mar 28, 2015

Wait....what was that again? I'm not sure I quite got that.

A lot of the gun laws in this state are just absurd, and it's frustrating to try to be in compliance with them due to how arbitrary and unenforceable they are, but yet here we are, jumping through hoops in our attempts to be as law-abiding as we can possibly be. (Meanwhile the criminals take every advantage of the unenforceable nature of them.)

This situation that the OP is describing is a perfect example - it would be so simple to just agree upon a price with the friend, exchange money and firearm, and NO ONE WOULD EVER KNOW - the only people who would ever know would be the two people party to the sale.

It has me so upset, I think I need to go have some Knob Creek Bourbon.

Rack&Roll · Mar 28, 2015

pour one for me..ugh

Need of advice on gun registration

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