engineerbrian
JMB fan club
I hunt with a guy that uses a 22-250 for deer, and let me tell you, it drops them is their tracks. Just as everyone else will say, shot placement and proper ammo is key.
Anybody hunt deer with a .223? (AR15)
- Thread starter vin
- Start date
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I hunt with a guy that uses a 22-250 for deer, and let me tell you, it drops them is their tracks. Just as everyone else will say, shot placement and proper ammo is key.
Redneck
Ultimate Member
Had I taken my .223 AR instead of my .308 this deer would have kept running off into the marsh. He was hauling ass through the marsh making the shot very tough. Had I shot him with a .223 I'm not confident at all that he would have died in one shot, hell I'd bet a ton that he would have gotten away.
I leave tomorrow for rifle season. I take a few guns, my .308, my .243, and my 12 guage. I'll leave the .223 home again because I have some studs hanging around where I know even if I make a semi bad shot with the .308 he's still down. Sorry I can't say the same for a .223.
I leave tomorrow for rifle season. I take a few guns, my .308, my .243, and my 12 guage. I'll leave the .223 home again because I have some studs hanging around where I know even if I make a semi bad shot with the .308 he's still down. Sorry I can't say the same for a .223.
Russ D
Ultimate Member
I you cannot be sure of making a great shot, you shouldn't take it. The only limiting factor with .223 is distance.
Russ D
Ultimate Member
This is very true. When discussing bullets. You cannot compare this to arrows. It is apples and oranges.
When you look at the lethality of any projectile weapon, energy is not always what wins. In the end, it is the amount of tissue damage you can do to vital organs that puts the target down.
With bullets we look at a couple of things:
1. diameter of the projectile can play a role, because the larger the surface area that impacts the target, the more energy is transferred into the tissue. This is why hollow-point rounds are so effective. You can create a very large wound channel.
2. The weight and speed of the projectile because physics tells us that kinetic energy is a function of mass and velocity. The resulting shock waves of the projectile transferring it's energy into the tissue also does a great deal of damage. Some say that it disrupts the central nervous system, and some say it doesn't. Look at ballistic gelatin to see shock waves.
Conversely, if you have a very small diameter projectile traveling at a very high speed, it may have tremendous kinetic energy, but because of it's shape it may not be able to do much tissue damage because it can't transfer it's energy efficiently, and you get a through and through wound with a small wound channel. The .223/5.56 mm depends on the bullet yawing. If the bullet does not, it doesn't kill well. This has more to do with the construction of the bullet than anything.
Look at an arrow head (for hunting) straight on and look at a bullet straight on. Note that the arrow head has a much larger diameter. Because of the way it is constructed, there is not a lot of surface area that impacts the target. The arrow does it's damage by slicing through tissue, puncturing lungs, and blood vessels etc. You only need enough kinetic energy to get the arrowhead through the target. It is said in bow hunting that you only need 65 ft. lbs. of kinetic energy when hunting large game. A .25 auto has ~66 ft. lbs. You enjoy.
1. 70 grain Barnes TSX will expand at a wide range in velocity and retain 100% of their weight on a deer, making them ideal projectiles.
Nothing wrong with that. I think there have been a lot of advances over the years. This isn't the .223 of of 20 years ago.
1970swifty
Active Member
As much energy as an arrow yes but my arrows are 125 grain broad heads with 1 inch diameter blades could use 223 lots of better options are out there
Spur
Active Member
223 on deer
I shot one small doe with a .223. Never again. It was a good shot at about 50 yards, and should have killed immediately, but she took over an hour to bleed out. She went down, but I was afraid to approach her as I could hear her moaning and I was concerned that she would jump and run into cover and be lost. In my opinion it is simply to light a round to be depended upon. I haven't used the .243, which some favor, but the .270 and higher are what I hunted with after that experience.
I shot one small doe with a .223. Never again. It was a good shot at about 50 yards, and should have killed immediately, but she took over an hour to bleed out. She went down, but I was afraid to approach her as I could hear her moaning and I was concerned that she would jump and run into cover and be lost. In my opinion it is simply to light a round to be depended upon. I haven't used the .243, which some favor, but the .270 and higher are what I hunted with after that experience.
I guess all this bolis down to:
Will a .223 kill a deer?
Yes.
Is a .223 a good choice for deer?
Probably not.
Will a .223 kill a deer?
Yes.
Is a .223 a good choice for deer?
Probably not.
Markp
Ultimate Member
- Dec 22, 2008
- 9,392
Code:
.30-30 Energy (ft-lbs)
Cartridge_Type Bullet Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500
Remington® MR 125 1313 919 631 437 325 264
Remington® Express® 150 1902 1296 858 565 399 316
Remington® Express® 170 1827 1355 989 720 535 425
Remington® Express® 170 1827 1355 989 720 535 425
.223 Energy (ft-lbs)
Type Bullet Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500
UMC® 45 1259 871 590
Premier® AccuTip™ 50 1209 927 701 522 380 273
UMC® 50 1302 933 655
Premier® AccuTip™ 55 1282 995 763 576 427 312
Remington® Express® 55 1282 921 648 443 295 197
Remington® Express® 55 1282 939 675 473 323 220
Remington® Express® 55 1282 929 660 456 307 207
UMC® 55 1282 929 660
Remington® Express® 62 1260 911 643 442 298 204
Remington® Express® 69 1379 1133 925 747 598 473.30-30 as you can see above from Remington's own ballistic charts show that their .30-30 loads are only a bit more powerful than their strongest .223 load.
1133 ft/lbs at 100 yards vs 1355 ft/lbs at 100 yards
At 200 yards, the Remington Express .30-30 puts 989 ft/lbs into the target and the .223 puts 925 ft/lbs into the target.
That's a MARGINAL DIFFERENCE, unless you shoot your deer at Point Blank Range. I might add that beyond 300 yards the 69 grain .223 has more energy. I've got the crack pipe here for you.
mackie
Dumb Farmer
I killed 3 deer last season with my .223 AR, the round will kill a deer, but I don't beleave that the round is adequate for deer. The first one walked about 50 yards and laid down, all were shot with 75 grain Horady or Black Hills hollow point boattail match ammo. The second was on the run when I shot him and didn't go much more than another 30 yards, the last walked about 10 steps and dropped.
Russ D
Ultimate Member
What bullet? Most. 223 bullets are not constructed properly for deer hunting. How was it a good shot? Lung, heart?
Russ D
Ultimate Member
Hollow point boat tail match bullets are not designed for deer hunting in any caliber. BTW you'd be hard pressed to get better performance out of any caliber than what you described.
Russ D
Ultimate Member
Based on what personal experience?
Redneck
Ultimate Member
And who ever said ALL rednecks were automatically stupid.
But seriously any hunter knows everything will not happen perfect, if it does well I guess the deer just came out of the cage. Numerous things can happen in the woods in the moment that can mess up your shot just a tad. Wind, another gun shot, deer moving, thicket, there of tons of variables in the stand. I personally like having a bit of room for error, a comfort zone. I'm sure we've all made bad shots, it happens. I just want to make sure that no matter what, my shot will make the deer go down. The last thing I want in the stand is worrying if I'll actually kill this deer with the weapon I use. If I have to question its effectiveness based on the fact that I have to make a perfect shot, well guess what, that is a gun I do not want to use in the stand.
Redneck
Ultimate Member
Markp
Ultimate Member
- Dec 22, 2008
- 9,392
A 100 grain .243 bullet is still near 2500 ft/sec@200 yards (1332 ft/lbs) where a .30-30 with a 170 grain bullet is running about 1600 ft/sec@200 yards (1355 ft/lbs), by contrast a good .223 round (75 grain Hornady BTHP) is also cruising at near 2500 ft/sec@ 200 yards, but delivering a bit less punch (1000 ft/lbs) but still sufficient for deer. However none of these are even in the same league as .308 which is putting out nearly 2 times as much power at 200 yards@2300+ ft/lbs with a 168 grain bullet (which is similar to 7.62x54R).
Perhaps I was cavalier when I said that .30-30 was marginally more powerful, but when compared to .308, it really seems to be only a minor step up from .223.
Mark
Russ D
Ultimate Member
I've killed a lot of deer with a firearm and none required more than one shot and I've never missed. The one I had the hardest time recovering was an offhand shot at about 100 yards with a 30/06 that penetrated both lungs but failed to expand. The deer traveled about 600 yards through super thick cover before piling up under a tree. I never found more than a drop of blood in any one spot. I tracked it alone for about 5 hours on my hands and knees. This single experience says nothing about the overall performance or adequecy of the cartridge. Sometimes shit just happens.
WSM
Rugeritis
I have weighed in on this topic before so I'll be brief.
Any caliber can kill a deer with the right shot placement. .223 and other high velocity .22 rounds will do the job the good shot placement is absolutely essential or you'll be tracking all day.
I would think the biggest issue with AR's is trying to manipulate the controls with gloves on. I have never done it but it doesn't seem like fun to me. AR10's are pigs and I wouldn't want to hike one all over the country side. It's a moot point if you're stand hunting though.
I prefer a bit more versatile caliber....
Any caliber can kill a deer with the right shot placement. .223 and other high velocity .22 rounds will do the job the good shot placement is absolutely essential or you'll be tracking all day.
I would think the biggest issue with AR's is trying to manipulate the controls with gloves on. I have never done it but it doesn't seem like fun to me. AR10's are pigs and I wouldn't want to hike one all over the country side. It's a moot point if you're stand hunting though.
I prefer a bit more versatile caliber....
