Hearing on SB281 on July 22, 2014

fabsroman · Jul 11, 2014

teratos said:
Hearings aren't (or shouldn't be) about public opinion.

I doubt a big showing on our part will do a damn thing to influence the verdict.

They shouldn't be, but they are. There is something called "public policy". Not that I think public policy will come into play here, and not that a federal judge is worried about getting re-elected, but when there are a lot of people supporting something it makes them think long and hard on how they want to rule. There will be arguments that support both sides and the Judge can lash onto whichever argument suits the way the Judge wants to rule. Seen it done plenty of times. Hell, Kennedy went with the Obamacare fine being a "tax". Might as well make speeding citations a tax.

No, supporting the case and showing up will not be a bad thing unless people cannot dress appropriately, etc. I know at least one federal District Court Judge that was a hunter, who gave up hunting because of all the laws that could get him in trouble with it.

I am going to try to attend.

fabsroman · Jul 11, 2014

iH8DemLibz said:
This from a guy who has a show off the t-shirt, superman style avatar.

As others have stated, we mean nothing in Annapolis and even less in a courtroom.

And with that type of thinking, FOGETABOUT IT. Just sell your guns right now while you can get a decent amount for them.

Every night I debate whether to continue coming to this board because honestly, this board is a downer. The sky is always falling, the world is ending, etc. Stick our heads in the sand and kiss our rears goodbye.

Boom Boom · Jul 11, 2014

onatsky said:
This was an appeal from the Maryland Licensed Firearms Dealers Association for anyone available to attend.

Ron
The Gun Shop

I can confirm. I received the same letter from MLFDA a few days ago.

fabsroman · Jul 11, 2014

swinokur said:
This kind of activity is good in Annapolis. I don't want any judges' decisions to be swayed by popular opinion. I want them to rule on the law impartially. This is what happened in Annapolis. The GA passed 281 based on the liberals ideas and the popularity for useless gun control, not it's legality.

But watching the system in action would be a good thing.

My .02

Not me. I want the Judge to rule in our favor period, and for whatever reason the Judge can lash onto. I guarantee you that there is law to support both sides on this matter. Just a matter of which way the Judge wants to rule. I prefer to win, even if the law is not 100% on our side.

The amount of infringement on the 2nd Amendment is already ludicrous and that had to have come from somewhere (i.e., they found a way to make the law support it).

fabsroman · Jul 11, 2014

tsmith1499 said:
I'm just being devil's advocate here but how would the judge know who is for or against SB281 unless you were wearing some kind of pro 2A apparel or pin? Just throwing it out there. You are more than welcome to throw it back. I would go if I could if for no other reason than to see the process.

Unless the courtroom is packed, make sure you sit on the side of the courtroom that is representing us. If there is no sitting room on our side, stand on our side rather than sitting on the other side. That will send the message. Kind of like a wedding. Are you here for the pro side or the anti side, and sit in the appropriate place.

Skins_Brew · Jul 11, 2014

Blacksmith101 said:
Judge Blake
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catherine_C._Blake

Slick Willy appointed her..... :sad20:

fightinbluhen51 · Jul 15, 2014

fabsroman said:
Unless the courtroom is packed, make sure you sit on the side of the courtroom that is representing us. If there is no sitting room on our side, stand on our side rather than sitting on the other side. That will send the message. Kind of like a wedding. Are you here for the pro side or the anti side, and sit in the appropriate place.

Civil suit...plaintiff on the right, defendant upon the left, correct?

dblas · Jul 15, 2014

fightinbluhen51 said:
Civil suit...plaintiff on the right, defendant upon the left, correct?

From discussions today with the legal team, it is a relatively small hearing room, it sits maybe 40 - 50 people total, figure 10 or so of those seats reserved for individual plaintiffs and the representatives from the organizational plaintiffs, that leave 30 - 40 seats. Of course it could be moved to a larger hearing room but don't bet on it.

montoya32 · Jul 15, 2014

I would be there if I didn't have appts already set in stone. I don't think it can hurt to have well dressed, polite citizens there. It would also ensure that the antis don't own the show. Don't want crazy cat lady or anyone else grabbing all of media attention if it gets any coverage.

fabsroman · Jul 15, 2014

fightinbluhen51 said:
Civil suit...plaintiff on the right, defendant upon the left, correct?

Simply put, it depends. Usually, the party with the burden of proof, plaintiff in a civil matter and state in a criminal matter, are next to the jury box. That is generally. Judges can change this on a whim. Just this year I have been on the left and the right on criminal matters. Just pay attention to the attorneys or ask the clerk who sits where. Sometimes, they will actually have the tables labeled for you.

Brooklyn · Jul 15, 2014

Hey fabs -- I think its great that you are going.. I f I could spare the time I would but I can't right now... also my best suit no longer fits as I doped some weight ..

Go represent us well -- and thanks for doing so..

CypherPunk · Jul 16, 2014

I refuse to cede anything unless it's for strategic advantage. Plan to attend and observe the public hearing. Sit or stand behind the plaintiff. Dress well, behave better and support your fellow patriots the way you would want them to support you.

fabsroman · Jul 16, 2014

Brooklyn said:
Hey fabs -- I think its great that you are going.. I f I could spare the time I would but I can't right now... also my best suit no longer fits as I doped some weight ..

Go represent us well -- and thanks for doing so..

One of the benefits of being my own boss, for the most part. Downside is being a parent. I have to figure out who can watch my kids, which lately is a tough thing with my dad going to rehab 3 days a week and doctor appointments left and right, but he is trying to clear next Tuesday for me so he and my mom can watch them.

I have the opposite suit problem. All of mine are tight because I have gained weight.

Rack&Roll · Jul 16, 2014

This the the Kolbe case, right?

Minuteman · Jul 16, 2014

Getting closer.

Very hopeful.

Wish us all luck.

swinokur · Jul 16, 2014

Rack&Roll said:
This the the Kolbe case, right?

yes.

Dippah · Jul 16, 2014

I plan to be in attendance.

Boxcab · Jul 16, 2014

Just throwing out a line of thinking before my second cup of coffee...

How would 500 to 1000 protesters outside the court house be perceived? Something like the rally in Annapolis during the hearings for 281. The protestors would have (should have) no effect on the hearings themselves, but I bet the Newsies would report it! What are the chances the case gets any air time otherwise? How does our strength in numbers appear with no turn out what so ever? Can the Anti's point to our Annapolis rallies as just a fluke? If we want to be heard we need to show up at each and every review of this bad law in numbers. We need to be the squeaky wheel if we want anyone to listen.

Now, I am off to the coffee maker.

clandestine · Jul 16, 2014

Blacksmith101 said:
A full courtroom should not influence a judges opinion however the show of interest by the public might reinforce the judges realization of the importance of the case and insure she pays close attention to the arguments of the facts of the case. When it comes to the facts the other side frequently comes up short or uses "facts" that don't stand up to close examination.

Judge Blake
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catherine_C._Blake

Yeah, I can certainly see THAT judge ruling in our favor. :sad20:

Brooklyn · Jul 16, 2014

Boxcab said:
Just throwing out a line of thinking before my second cup of coffee...

How would 500 to 1000 protesters outside the court house be perceived? Something like the rally in Annapolis during the hearings for 281. The protestors would have (should have) no effect on the hearings themselves, but I bet the Newsies would report it! What are the chances the case gets any air time otherwise? How does our strength in numbers appear with no turn out what so ever? Can the Anti's point to our Annapolis rallies as just a fluke? If we want to be heard we need to show up at each and every review of this bad law in numbers. We need to be the squeaky wheel if we want anyone to listen.

Now, I am off to the coffee maker.

One issue is its just a hearing. Another as I noted is that we expect a loss this round... so why draw more attention.. on the other hand if we win... it will get lots of attention no matter what we do.

And if folks spend their time off this way they may not be able to make it when we really do need to make some noise.

That's how I see it anyway...

Timeing is key..

Hearing on SB281 on July 22, 2014

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