moojersey
Sic Semper Tyrannis
I'm worried about Russian ammo disappearing but not the calibers. Ukraine, Romania, Czech Republic, Bulgaria, etc. will hopefully keep commie calibers available.
Do we need to worry about a Russian Ammo Ban?
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c4snipar
Ultimate Member
just imagine how much of tax the U.S could have collect if there's no ban.........just saying
c4snipar
Ultimate Member
are surplus ammo ban too?
Gundahar
Active Member
- Sep 4, 2011
- 372
According to SGAammo (love those guys btw), the Ukrainian UCW factory has been captured by rebels, so its not giving us jack. That leaves just Russia for imported ammo, and that's about done imo.
Gundahar
Gundahar
Tactics
Ultimate Member
I keep going back and forth on this.. Is it time to panic buy everything you see?
I think the chance to panic is going to end soon as supply dwindles. There is certainly a run on Russian ammo.
Sportsman's Guide seems to still have some in stock at good prices. But my other favorite sources for mail order ammo are sold out, or almost so.
AlpineDude67
Active Member
- Feb 17, 2013
- 771
I would not panic buy 7.62x39 right now.
I would buy enough to go through another .22 style shortage for a year or two.
Here is why: The AK-47 is the most popular rifle the world has ever known, by a large margin. 7.62x39 ammo is made EVERYWHERE. There is no single source for 7.62. If the supply of Russian ammo shipments to the U.S. get blocked, that just means some of these other suppliers have a chance to win business away from the Russians.
Making 7.62 ammo isn't rocket science. I imagine there are a lot of 7.62 production lines just rusting in Poland or Bulgaria or whatever, unable to compete with cheap Russian ammo. Or somebody in Pakistan or Vietnam who already makes it now and can easily make more for export. Somebody will pick up the slack eventually, producing decent quality 7.62 at prices roughly similar to what Russia was charging.
That "eventually" part is the only thing we have to worry about. We could easily see some short-term disruption here. It could become expensive and difficult to find for a year or more. But that won't last unless ALL ammo importation is banned. There are just too many other places where it could be sourced from. 7.62x39 is probably the most common centerfire rifle cartridge in the world.
5.45 is a very different story. It isn't made everywhere and we mainly get it from Ukraine now that 7N6 is banned. I probably have more 5.45 than any other caliber, including .22, but I think it is probably impossible to have too much 5.45 unless you already own every round of 5.45 you will ever shoot. If we lose access to the 5.45 from Ukraine and can't get any from Russia either - we are screwed.
I would buy enough to go through another .22 style shortage for a year or two.
Here is why: The AK-47 is the most popular rifle the world has ever known, by a large margin. 7.62x39 ammo is made EVERYWHERE. There is no single source for 7.62. If the supply of Russian ammo shipments to the U.S. get blocked, that just means some of these other suppliers have a chance to win business away from the Russians.
Making 7.62 ammo isn't rocket science. I imagine there are a lot of 7.62 production lines just rusting in Poland or Bulgaria or whatever, unable to compete with cheap Russian ammo. Or somebody in Pakistan or Vietnam who already makes it now and can easily make more for export. Somebody will pick up the slack eventually, producing decent quality 7.62 at prices roughly similar to what Russia was charging.
That "eventually" part is the only thing we have to worry about. We could easily see some short-term disruption here. It could become expensive and difficult to find for a year or more. But that won't last unless ALL ammo importation is banned. There are just too many other places where it could be sourced from. 7.62x39 is probably the most common centerfire rifle cartridge in the world.
5.45 is a very different story. It isn't made everywhere and we mainly get it from Ukraine now that 7N6 is banned. I probably have more 5.45 than any other caliber, including .22, but I think it is probably impossible to have too much 5.45 unless you already own every round of 5.45 you will ever shoot. If we lose access to the 5.45 from Ukraine and can't get any from Russia either - we are screwed.
I'm panicking. It's currently $0.24/round shipped and I don't think it's going to get cheaper even IF other countries step up production. I stock 21 different calibers, but x39 and .45 are my SHTF calibers and it only makes sense to keep a magic # of rounds of each on hand.
Keep in mind that one carbine class may require 800 rounds. If you plan to train with your AK in the next couple of years, I think it prudent to buy now.
Just my .02.
Keep in mind that one carbine class may require 800 rounds. If you plan to train with your AK in the next couple of years, I think it prudent to buy now.
Just my .02.
akkiller
live free or die
YES we do!!!! we need to worry about any ban related to the 2nd amendment
Abulg1972
Ultimate Member
We must all prepare for the revolution.
jpo183
Ultimate Member
Rule of thumb min 1k rounds per firearm.
1k rounds for 277$
I am not worried about 7.62. Besides Obama is only here for a little while longer.
IMO having a 7.62x39 & a 223/556 rifle is smart. If you dont have one you should consider having one of each.
I also like 9mm because of the prevalence of it. .45 is nice, but police and mil use 9mm. I could even agree with .40 but .45 IMO is not a SHTF round.
Oldcarjunkie
R.I.P
Pallet of 54r?
Hard to argue with that logic. I have all 3 of the calibers mentioned, and guns to shoot them, but ultimately it's a personal choice. Of all of my handguns (not counting revolvers which are far and away the superior shooters, but arguably poor "weapons") I shoot the .45's I have the best. Hence my decision to stockpile .45. Plus I reload that caliber already so no need to invest in new dies, brass, etc.
WRT to Obama and a Rooskie ammo crisis, even IF King Obummer leaves office and the R's win the WH, I'm not sure that the sanctions are going away. It's Obummer's EO, but the problem is much deeper and these sanctions appear to have bi-partisan support. Or so says my crystal ball.
AlpineDude67
Active Member
- Feb 17, 2013
- 771
I agree that these sanctions aren't going away soon and they are driven by issues that go way beyond Obama's hostility to guns. These things are mainly about punishing Russia for Ukraine and the fact that it screws us is just a side-benefit for the anti-gun people. The Russian economy basically sucks - they don't make much for export beyond weapons and gas/oil. So if you want to kick Putin where it hurts, weapons sales are an obvious target. I'd guess that even if Romney had won, we might very well be seeing exactly the same situation.
If Russia walks away from Ukraine the sanctions might get relaxed. That doesn't seem real likely anytime soon. In fact, the opposite seems to be where he is going.
Your best bet is to have multiple caliber choices so you can go shooting and keep your skills up even if some ammo is difficult to find or expensive. I think it is much more important to have some regular trigger time than to just not go shooting at all because you want to hoard your ammo. At least .22 is starting to slowly come back and that's the cheapest training of all.
If Russia walks away from Ukraine the sanctions might get relaxed. That doesn't seem real likely anytime soon. In fact, the opposite seems to be where he is going.
Your best bet is to have multiple caliber choices so you can go shooting and keep your skills up even if some ammo is difficult to find or expensive. I think it is much more important to have some regular trigger time than to just not go shooting at all because you want to hoard your ammo. At least .22 is starting to slowly come back and that's the cheapest training of all.
Tyeraxus
Ultimate Member
I think .40 makes an acceptable SHTF round due to the wide adoption of .40 by LEAs nationwide, including many Fed agencies. There will be constant production runs (and overruns) of HP ammo in .40 to meet this demand.
My first handgun was a .40S&W precisely because, at the height of the panic, I could find that more readily than I could anything else. With modern HP bullets, 9mm/.40/.45 all perform roughly similarly as far as terminal ballistics. A lot of people use this as an argument to standardize on 9mm because 17rds > 15rds, but I look at it as "Better 15 rounds of .40 I have than 17 rounds of 9mm I don't."
I can't disagree with you on the .223/5.56 and 7.62x39 rifles. Having both would be great, but that may be outside some (many?) people's budgets, especially if you're getting into rifles now rather than 5-10 years ago.
QuebecoisWolf
Ultimate Member
WRT to Obama and a Rooskie ammo crisis, even IF King Obummer leaves office and the R's win the WH, I'm not sure that the sanctions are going away. It's Obummer's EO, but the problem is much deeper and these sanctions appear to have bi-partisan support. Or so says my crystal ball.
I agree. The NRA won't likely fight over it either. Time and time again, American gun and ammo companies have firmly supported efforts to hamper foreign competition.
ozwyn
Ultimate Member
Never had one dang republican in office who ever repealed a democrat written anti-gun executive order.
a gun-friendly white house under either party is a myth when it comes to where it counts.
I suspect there will be another executive order banning Russian ammo imports. I believe the republicans will run under the lie of being pro-gun, and continue to do nothing for anti-gun executive order.
...but it might be that I am simply grumpy
a gun-friendly white house under either party is a myth when it comes to where it counts.
I suspect there will be another executive order banning Russian ammo imports. I believe the republicans will run under the lie of being pro-gun, and continue to do nothing for anti-gun executive order.
...but it might be that I am simply grumpy
I believe that panic buying and hoarding behavior are much more of a problem than the reality of a Russian ammo cut off.
As others have stated, there are many additional sources for 7.62 of all flavors, but more over I believe distributors and speculators have huge stockpiles already in the US ... waiting to take advantage of everyone who is willing to pay more
As others have stated, there are many additional sources for 7.62 of all flavors, but more over I believe distributors and speculators have huge stockpiles already in the US ... waiting to take advantage of everyone who is willing to pay more
fightinbluhen51
"Quack Pot Call Honker"
- Oct 31, 2008
- 8,974
The only people speculating in firearms and ammo are those with the ability to sit on "hard assets" as they manage their "cash" diversity. The mega rich can't be bothered, which means preppers, average joes, bubas, and rednecks whom think there is a buck to be made with the next panic.
With margin compression and cashflow nightmares, online retailers, their wholesalers, and importers, there isn't enough warehouse space (read capital) to sit on a large volume of stuff when volume and turnover are the names of the game.
My ammo supplier (SGammo) regularly can sell 60-100k rounds of 7.62x39 in days (of just one type). They probably make 10~20 bucks on each case with their direct expenses. Allocating overhead and it's probably in the single digits.
When commercial property taxes run 10s of thousands, and you have 100k sq ft of warehouse space that is a negative cashflow paying for the financing, online retailers are certainly NOT sitting on product waiting for higher prices. If they can charge more for it now, they will, otherwise it's selling at prices above cost.
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