Engage to sell so called "smart gun"

teratos said:

I agree. We say it with all sincerity. They think we are kidding.

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Absolutely.

iggy said:

Andy had mentioned the Chris Hayes show in his video so I did a search. It sounds like the slant of the story changed quite a but since the SHTF.

Here is a link to a preview of the piece set to air Monday.
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...&mid=EC981D7F94D478D2DE64EC981D7F94D478D2DE64

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Sorry but is the Chris Hayes show the name of the show? Looks like MDS will be on there.

pbharvey said:

Sorry but is the Chris Hayes show the name of the show? Looks like MDS will be on there.

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Talk about mind boggling coincidences.

Actually finding a guy named Chris Hayes to host the Chris Hayes show.

BRILLIANT!

Great... I ignored this thread cause I really wasn't interested in the supposed "smart" gun crap, but I guess I ended up missing a lot of important stuff. Andy and engage is top notch, but they really did stepped in it with this crap. We've got to be careful! Who ever threatened the shop needs to be brought to light and we are witnessing why the media isn't our friends and never will be. An anti, is an anti, is an anti. The only way they'll ever be brought to our side is when their lives are threatened and they realize just how vulnerable they are. Andy, you've got the support of most of us; hopefully all. I hope this all blows over quickly and life gets back to normal. F%€k the media and the anti-crowd. They aren't our friends and I'm OK with that.

Tyeraxus said:

I do, but do they? Remember, we're talking about people who know squat about guns, safes, gun culture, etc. At most they have a buddy who took them to the range a couple of times.

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They will learn/be informed when they go to the gunstore. Where they will likely be directed to a firearms instructor for additional training.

Here's my problem with that - you're equating two very different sets of people, and saying that because someone who is comfortable around guns and knows what's what with someone who doesn't, and has been told pretty much since birth that "guns are eeeeebil and will kill your children!!!111oneone" Urban yuppies, suburban soccer moms, etc.

I'm not in favor of mandating that all guns should have this technology. I wouldn't buy one. But I think it should be available. A lot of people see it as "the camel's nose under the tent" towards gun control. I turn that on its head - I see it as a potential nose under the tent towards more widespread gun ownership. "Hi, yeah, I bought this 'smartgun' to take to the range, but it's a POS and won't shoot most of the time." "Well, if you're looking for something a little more reliable, we have this Ruger SR22 over here. It's much more reliable, plus it's only about a third of what you paid for that other one. If you're worried about your kids finding it, we have this small safe over here..."

Let's make social engineering work for us, for a change. We can't keep preaching to the choir and expect to win in the legislatures.

Is it a risk? What in life isn't? But with social surveys consistently saying that gun ownership is declining as a portion of households, we need to do something to make inroads. Otherwise we'll lose elections, and thereby lose the courts through judicial appointments, and the 2A two-step will kill our rights.

I don't worry so much about MY rights... I worry about my kids' rights, and my grandkids'.

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Last I checked we all feared firearms before we were instructed on their safe handling/use and gained experience/familiarity with them. I don't see how this should differ based on a persons background.

And I hope an individual would be intelligent enough to see that there may be reliability/durability issues with an unproven design (in addition to the "smart" tech) compared to proven traditional designs without having to buy the smart gun and experience these things firsthand.

I'll direct you to this post:

http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?p=3175982#post3175982

If you are so concerned about the rights of future generations (which, I can assure you the rest of us are) you should not be so quick to support something with unclear implications.

Appeasing anti's isn't really going to get us anywhere.

Also if this was really the next "big" thing, why haven't any of the established firearm manufacturers released a smart gun. Why is this no name company the first.

I'll leave you with text posted on armatrix's website:

It is said that mechanical innovation in revolvers, handguns and rifles has been all but exhausted, and this has been the case for decades now. Any progress will and can only be electronic in nature. In this regard, Armatix is at the pinnacle of a development that will revolutionize how people use guns.

There is hardly a global mass-produced product in existence today that does not rely on smart electronics. From electric kitchen appliances and on-board computers in our cars all the way to digital cameras – the world today has gone entirely digital. Semiconductor technology is about to cause the fall of the last analog bastion: the book. In ten years, people will be reading most books, newspapers and magazines using multimedia readers connected to the Internet.

With stocks currently numbering 650 million, handguns definitely belong to the mass-produced product sector. There is no doubt that smart electronics will go on to conquer this sector. Legislators in many countries are working on binding provisions to pave the way for new technologies. Armatix’s mechatronic solutions for securing handguns, revolvers and rifles are already charting the course that the entire industry will follow in the years to come. The advantages in terms of safeguarding shooters and their environment are much too obvious to be disregarded on a wider front in the near future.

In addition to safety, however, it is primarily the increase in efficiency that is making weapons with integrated electronics attractive to their owners and leaders. Once equipped with chip-based intelligence, weapons and weapon systems can be networked with computers. In this way, it will be possible to log the use of arms and ammunition in detail, flexibly control this use, and evaluate it in multiple dimensions. One glance at Baselock, Quicklock and Smart System from Armatix makes it clear today what guns and gun safety will look like tomorrow. And what’s more: the future of the weapon is already a reality at Armatix.

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http://www.armatix.us/Vision.800.0.html?&L=7

My thinking is that they're getting some kind of US Government funding through back channels.

That 11 billion dollar technology grant said nothing about keep the money in the good old USA.

Random thoughts on this one...

1. Dr. Strangelove opening this thread on the smart gun was priceless!

2. If Engage indeed was threatened over this, that is outrageous. On the other hand, I cannot deny I am disappointed they would offer something the antis LOVE.

3. The reason the antis love the "smart gun" is first and foremost high price. They know darn well that one way to lower legal gun sales is to make guns expensive. Very expensive. If the Armatix were being offered for $175 the antis would immediately label them "Saturday Night Specials" or "junk guns". "They are not reliable enough for the victims", the antis would say. But for $1,800, "they are perfect", "they are ideal for families".

4. The two key weaknesses of these "smart guns" are reliability (or lack of) and the ability of your opponent to jam them. In a world where hundreds of millions of old school guns that cannot be jammed are available, do you want to hold a gun that can be jammed when you face a criminal? Given that the jamming devices might be illegal due to RF interference, there would be two groups carrying them: the government and criminals. For the Nazis who love unlimited government control, a mandate of "smart guns" would be perfect because it would give the government a 2nd amendment kill switch.

5. I love someone's idea of an iPhone jamming app or at least make available on the web the blue-print of a jamming device in order to discredit this expensive beast.

tsmith1499 said:

Methinks thou art talking out of your A$$.

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I just say it how I see it. Its all comes down to sales. Smart guns sales or not. But if your turned on by @ss talk I would be willing to bet there is a internet forum for that as well.

Remember the Greatest Generation? They smashed the Nazi and Japanese killing machines while getting by with barely adequate food, sleep, medicine, clothing, boots, etc. And you could hardly ever get a word out of them about what it was like, good or bad.

And then there's The BlabFest Generation--the generation that can't stop posting think-ouloud videos on Social Media. Yes, there is a chance that this Mother Of All Rants from Andy at Engage will long be remembered as the War Whoop that put America back on the path to greatness. Or, more likely, it will be circulated endlessly by smug smartasses for the rest of Andy's natural life resulting in personal taunts and gestures in public, and notes under his windshield after a nice evening out.

And what about earlier this week--when the braves souls who answered the call at the Bundy Ranch split into two camps of complaining, whining bitches. Each side took turns posting 10, 20, even 60 minute videos squealing about hurt feelings and gave all the "patriot-hating" Liberals endless fun and satisfaction--and all because grown men on our side can't keep their mouths shut and settle their differences like men. The glorious scenes of the BLM being chased back to their bunkhouse with their tails between their legs is now diluted with FaceFart videos of Bundy Defenders having hissy fits.

Seriously, if you want to take the fun and funny pics that are on your fridge and put them on Facebook, have at it. But why? Every one of your sisters, girlfriends, wives, and daughters is already a step ahead of you. You are not needed on Facebook. You are needed as a righteous, moral, spiritual brother in this battle against all that is wrong in an America that has lost it way.

Trust me on this, Facebook won't miss you when you leave. The young men that are coming up looking for role models--and I mean those who can demonstrate REAL honor and grit--need us more than you can ever know. The Greatest Generation entrusted us to keep the flag flying. So if not now, when? If not you, who?

clandestine said:

Engage will came out of this BETTER then when they went in.

Screw the pusscake whiners.

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+1

You are not needed on Facebook.

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I absolutely 100% DISAGREE with you on this point. Social media has become a huge battle ground for 2A rights, among other things. There are hundreds of misleading or outright false memes, images and links floating out there.

For example, right after Sandy Hook, liberals began posting an image of Ft. Hood saying "This man killed x number of people on a military base full of guns, more guns is not the answer."

Savy 2A people were quick to attack it reminding people that only MP's carry sidearms now.

You are needed on social media in the battle to protect 2A. What is not needed is posting false stuff, or whiney crap.

Even if you think Andy made mistakes and a dumb decision, he is still our brother in the community, and an asset. Lets not be quick to throw him down.

They will learn/be informed when they go to the gunstore.

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Gotta get them in one, first. That's my point - the existence of this tech might be all that gets somebody in the door to start with. I know people like that - fully brainwashed by the "a gun in the house will jump out of the safe and mind control my baby into killing himself" propaganda from the various anti-gun groups. A "smart gun" might, MIGHT, get the husband in a shop, where I can show him comparative cost between the SG and a handgun+safe.

Where they will likely be directed to a firearms instructor for additional training.

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Having purchased several firearms in my life, in multiple states, I have never, not once, been directed to an instructor for any training. I was in a shop about two months ago looking for a specific pistol "because my wife might be interested in getting a carry permit." The shop employee never once volunteered that they teach a concealed carry class- I had to specifically ask where to find one. When he said they hold one (and nothing else), I had to specifically ask when the classes were held. You can absolutely not simply wave your hand and say "somebody'll tell them where to get training."

If you are so concerned about the rights of future generations (which, I can assure you the rest of us are) you should not be so quick to support something with unclear implications.

Appeasing anti's isn't really going to get us anywhere.

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Who said anything about appeasement? I want to turn their ploy into a gain for our side. Force the NJ law into effect before it works properly so it can be successfully challenged. Leave the product on the market (if the company doesn't immediately go under when the NJ law is struck down) to get more people into shooting and the 2A. Use it as a stepping stone or training wheels for those that feel they need the crutch until they're as knowledgeable and experienced as the rest of us. That's what I want out of this. Make them spend their time, waste their money, and using it to our benefit.

3 rifles bought at Engage.

Read the article, and agree with Andy's statement regarding hypocrisy.

Was going to go in yesterday just to give some love, but knew I would buy something, and I am broke.

Keep up the good fight Engage!

I will see you soon...

Fox News rehash=> http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/05/0...rops-plans-to-sell-smart-guns-after-backlash/

coopermania said:

WUSA 9 Website

http://www.wusa9.com/story/news/2014/05/02/engage-armament-wont-sell-smart-gun/8628037/

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That's me at 1:42. No autographs please!

dwnthehatch said:

That's me at 1:42. No autographs please!

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I would have picked one up.

And yet another "story"=> http://www.theverge.com/2014/5/5/5683504/gun-control-the-nra-wants-to-take-smart-guns-away

You guys really need to start thinking about the second and third order affects of these smart guns. Some of you are playing checkers while our opponents are playing chess.