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    G O B

    Ultimate Member
    Nov 17, 2007
    1,940
    Cen TX
    If anyone attends the hearings about the spying, you might want to make copies of this piece by Ronald Reagan's daughter from Newsweek and distribute among the legislators. While it's about the Calvo case it goes beyond that; http://www.newsweek.com/id/152412

    An excellent piece, well written and factual. We are a free Nation only as long as we have the rule of law. When "law enforcement" is free to act outside the law, we have a police state. The law is for all, and in PG Co. there is NO accountability for rouge cops. ( The State of MD is not far behind, mainly due to the O'mally belief that Party dogma trumps the law).
     

    scottp999

    Active Member
    Feb 11, 2008
    222
    I know so many people here say to get your collectors license to be able to buy more than 1 regulated firearm per month. Does anyone think that volunteering for any type of firearm registration, puts you on the so called "harrassment" radar screen (or makes you a bigger blip on that radar screen)?

    If you look throughout history, the first step is always registration so that they know where things are to confiscate at a later date. I know that regulated firearms themselves are already registerd since sometime in the 90's, but telling the state I have a desire to collect and assemble a stash of weapons seems to put a bigger target on a person, should they decide to come looking.
     

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    K31

    "Part of that Ultra MAGA Crowd"
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 15, 2006
    35,632
    AA county
    I know so many people here say to get your collectors license to be able to buy more than 1 regulated firearm per month. Does anyone think that volunteering for any type of firearm registration, puts you on the so called "harrassment" radar screen (or makes you a bigger blip on that radar screen)?

    I do. I remember reading about when Massachusetts first instituted firearm owner registration in the 70's. Suckers Gun owners there were sold a pack of lies assurances that the lists would never be used for gun confiscation. The next year, the legislators floated a bill to outlaw private handgun ownership. Among the objections to this was the fact that it would be impossible to check compliance, after all, how would the authorities find out who had guns? "Well," the legislators said, "we have these lists...".
     

    novus collectus

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    May 1, 2005
    17,358
    Bowie
    I know so many people here say to get your collectors license to be able to buy more than 1 regulated firearm per month. Does anyone think that volunteering for any type of firearm registration, puts you on the so called "harrassment" radar screen (or makes you a bigger blip on that radar screen)?

    If you look throughout history, the first step is always registration so that they know where things are to confiscate at a later date. I know that regulated firearms themselves are already registerd since sometime in the 90's, but telling the state I have a desire to collect and assemble a stash of weapons seems to put a bigger target on a person, should they decide to come looking.
    I have a C&R license, but only maybe 12 or 13 of my approximately 30 guns have to be recorded in my bound book.
    Out of my handguns, the state of Maryland knows about none of them.
    Out of all of my guns, about seven or eight are not even in any government record be it an FFL's bound book, ATF warehouse records, or state database...all are handguns of some kind.

    If there was illegal gun confiscation only 20 or so of mine were lost in the bay, the rest were just a figment of my active imagination. ;)
     

    novus collectus

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    May 1, 2005
    17,358
    Bowie
    I do. I remember reading about when Massachusetts first instituted firearm owner registration in the 70's. Suckers Gun owners there were sold a pack of lies assurances that the lists would never be used for gun confiscation. The next year, the legislators floated a bill to outlaw private handgun ownership. Among the objections to this was the fact that it would be impossible to check compliance, after all, how would the authorities find out who had guns? "Well," the legislators said, "we have these lists...".

    That's what I keep telling Fudds, moderates and antis that ask just what is so wrong with registration. Once they have the list, it will be the excuse to finally follow through with a real ban.
     

    Norton

    NRA Endowment Member, Rifleman
    Staff member
    Admin
    Moderator
    May 22, 2005
    122,856
    Update, courtesy of AGC:

    Ammunition Purchase Prompts a Middle of the Night Visit from the Maryland State Police

    La Plata, Maryland A law abiding former D.C. police officer received an unwelcome middle of the night visit from 6 members of the Maryland State Police firearms enforcement team.

    On August 4, 2008, at approximately 12:30 AM, 6 fully armed state troopers, driving unmarked vehicles, clad in plain clothes and assault vests surrounded a home in La Plata as part of an MSP investigation that began with a legal ammunition purchase by a law-abiding citizen. It seems that the victim purchased and voluntarily registered handgun ammunition in a caliber that the Maryland State Police records did not show the citizen owned. The citizen was automatically "flagged" by "the system" for investigation as a possible "straw purchaser."

    The victim's wife allowed 4 troopers to enter the dwelling. While the 4 trooper questioned the subject of this investigation, the 2 remaining troopers prowled around the exterior of the dwelling shining flashlights into the basement windows. The victim's wife confined the family dog in a room, fearful that it would be shot as recently happened to the dogs owned by the Mayor of Berwyn Heights during a botched police raid. While the questioning was taking place, 2 of the 4 troopers wandered around the dwelling in a obvious effort to see something that might be deemed probable cause to search the entire dwelling.

    Intensive questioning of the homeowner occurred, and much of it involve questions regarding the firearms the victim owned, where and how the firearms were stored - all unrelated to the actual ammunition purchase. Unable to find any evidence of wrongdoing, the trooper who appeared to be in command apologized for harassing the gentleman and left. None of the state troopers involved identified themselves by name or left any tangible evidence of their visit.

    There is much more to this story. Full details regarding the actual event and the final outcome will be reported in the near future.

    If you have been contacted or "interviewed" by any police agency regarding an ammunition purchase, please send the details of you experience to lvp@associatedgunclubs.org.

    Note: There is no law in Maryland requiring the registration of ammunition purchases. We recommend that our readers never register their ammunition purchases. If the dealer insists, we suggest that you find another dealer. Also, keep in mind that paying by check or credit card is no different than signing an ammunition purchase log.
     

    gamer_jim

    Podcaster
    Feb 12, 2008
    13,233
    Hanover, PA
    The victim's wife allowed 4 troopers to enter the dwelling.

    That was the first mistake. Basically waiving their 4th amendment rights.

    It seems that the victim purchased and voluntarily registered handgun ammunition

    I didn't even know you could or there was such a thing as a ammunition registry. Why would someone do that?

    Wasn't this story the one where the guy's brother was supposedly living with him and had a warrant out for his arrest? I might be getting my stories mixed up. So many botched police invasions recently hard to keep them all straight.
     

    gtodave

    Member
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 14, 2007
    14,176
    Mt Airy
    Wasn't this story the one where the guy's brother was supposedly living with him and had a warrant out for his arrest? I might be getting my stories mixed up. So many botched police invasions recently hard to keep them all straight.

    different story
     

    mvee

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 13, 2007
    2,487
    Crofton
    Wasn't this story the one where the guy's brother was supposedly living with him and had a warrant out for his arrest? I might be getting my stories mixed up. So many botched police invasions recently hard to keep them all straight.
    from the original post:
    We thought they were there for my Brother in Law who had just been mailed Bench Warrants to our home, but he doesn't live here and he is already incarcerated, so my Wife opened the door for them.

    Brother in law had a warrant out and used the same address. Maybe this triggered the raid
     

    K31

    "Part of that Ultra MAGA Crowd"
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 15, 2006
    35,632
    AA county
    from the original post:


    Brother in law had a warrant out and used the same address. Maybe this triggered the raid

    To believe that you have to believe that someone would mail warrants to a place they intended to raid en-mass for a fugitive in the middle of the night.

    Also, if they were there for the brother-in-law, why didn't they just state they had a warrant and wanted to search for him?
     
    Last edited:

    Half-cocked

    Senior Meatbag
    Mar 14, 2006
    23,937
    Brother in law had a warrant out and used the same address. Maybe this triggered the raid

    From the original post: "but he doesn't live here and he is already incarcerated."

    So, that was completely irrelevant - also, remember... the police never mentioned the relative. The occupants only mentioned that as a possible explanation for why the police had come to their home, and to explain why they opened the door and let the police in.

    The statements in the original post made it quite clear that this was a fishing expedition made only because an ammo purchase "didn't match up" with what guns their database "thought" he owned, and no other factors.
     
    B

    bluecollarkid

    Guest
    Similar thing happened to my grandparents; the only difference being that my uncle (who has one or two drug convictions) went to the store and bought ammo for the AK-47 he purchased pre-conviction. My uncle lived with my grandparents until recently. Cops showed, (this time local BCPD) raided my grandparents' home, confiscated both my uncle's and my grandfather's firearms. When my uncle struck a deal with the the state and got PBJ my grandfather petitioned the court/state for a return of his firearms through a writ of replevin whereupon the state gave a bogus excuse saying that the weapons were destroyed. The truth is that it is active policy in MD to fight tooth and nail to prevent return of firearms to lawful owners (learned this from a prosecutor). Reading the discussion on this and frequency that this occurs, it makes me want to do something about it. As such, I plan to practice second amendment/firearms law/criminal law when I get out of law school (another 6 mos. approx.) and do what I can to hold the state accountable for their actions (although under the law I doubt there is much that can be done other than complaining to the legislature). I let the board know when I setup shop so you guys can send problems/questions to me (it'll be about a year).
     

    K31

    "Part of that Ultra MAGA Crowd"
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 15, 2006
    35,632
    AA county
    Similar thing happened to my grandparents; the only difference being that my uncle (who has one or two drug convictions) went to the store and bought ammo for the AK-47 he purchased pre-conviction. My uncle lived with my grandparents until recently. Cops showed, (this time local BCPD) raided my grandparents' home, confiscated both my uncle's and my grandfather's firearms. When my uncle struck a deal with the the state and got PBJ my grandfather petitioned the court/state for a return of his firearms through a writ of replevin whereupon the state gave a bogus excuse saying that the weapons were destroyed. The truth is that it is active policy in MD to fight tooth and nail to prevent return of firearms to lawful owners (learned this from a prosecutor). Reading the discussion on this and frequency that this occurs, it makes me want to do something about it. As such, I plan to practice second amendment/firearms law/criminal law when I get out of law school (another 6 mos. approx.) and do what I can to hold the state accountable for their actions (although under the law I doubt there is much that can be done other than complaining to the legislature). I let the board know when I setup shop so you guys can send problems/questions to me (it'll be about a year).

    Do you know if the MSP has to answer Maryland freedom of information act requests (I forget Md's term for it but it has an equivalent of FOIA) regarding the Don Curtis case? I know LEOs are exempt in some respects but since this seems to be not a case of enforcing any existing law it would seem as if no exemptions should apply.
     
    Last edited:

    Kharn

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 9, 2008
    3,578
    Hazzard County
    Its called the Public Information Act in MD. And yes, the MSP will respond to them, at least on CCW matters (I did some digging a few years ago into their CCW policies and who had permits).
     

    Adams74Chevy

    Hits broadsides of barns
    Oct 3, 2007
    2,699
    Carroll Co.
    Its called the Public Information Act in MD. And yes, the MSP will respond to them, at least on CCW matters (I did some digging a few years ago into their CCW policies and who had permits).

    How ironic something in MD is a PIA. I don't doubt that there will be more of this shenanagans as the gun grabbers get more power.
     

    amoebicmagician

    Samopal Goblin
    Dec 26, 2012
    4,174
    Columbia, MD
    Once while I was giving a statement to police about a crime that occurred in my neighborhood, the cop that was taking the statement from me in my living room noticed a couple of .45 acp rounds lying on the table next to a bag of primers and other detritus I had brought in from the reloading area.

    So the cop stops taking my statement and asks- accusingly -
    "Do you have a FIREARM in this room you didn't tell me about?"

    I was floored. I stuttered out, "Not in this room" before I could even wrap my brain around what I was hearing. Then I got to thinking that I don't have to tell him a damn thing without being asked, and probably not even in that case, this guy is an invited guest in my house, since when do you allow guests to demand information from you in your own home?

    So then he starts saying that the bullets are probable cause or some such, so I told him I'd like him to leave, to which he replies if I'm hiding something he'll be back with a warrant. A WARRANT!

    Mind you this is someone I INVITED IN, in an effort to be helpful and make a statement about a group of bike thieves that kept hitting the neighborhood, and all of a sudden I'm a criminal because he sees some .45 acp rounds on the table?

    By the time I slammed the door on him I was so furious my hands were shaking.

    The whole time I was leading him to the door, he was telling me that it would be best for everyone if I just let him look around, especially if I had nothing to hide. I kept my mouth shut since if I hadn't I was pretty sure I'd have said something I would regret later, but once the door was shut I cursed a blue streak at the wall.

    Seriously, the nerve! I go out of my way to be a good citizen and this is how I'm treated? As a potential criminal? Why? Because I choose to own a gun, and heaven forbid reload my own ammunition? That suddenly makes me dillinger?

    Seriously though, it was amazing how fast his demeanor changed from helpful to complete douchebag on a power trip sniffing around to find something to screw me on.
     

    amoebicmagician

    Samopal Goblin
    Dec 26, 2012
    4,174
    Columbia, MD
    Similar thing happened to my grandparents; the only difference being that my uncle (who has one or two drug convictions) went to the store and bought ammo for the AK-47 he purchased pre-conviction. My uncle lived with my grandparents until recently. Cops showed, (this time local BCPD) raided my grandparents' home, confiscated both my uncle's and my grandfather's firearms. When my uncle struck a deal with the the state and got PBJ my grandfather petitioned the court/state for a return of his firearms through a writ of replevin whereupon the state gave a bogus excuse saying that the weapons were destroyed. The truth is that it is active policy in MD to fight tooth and nail to prevent return of firearms to lawful owners (learned this from a prosecutor). Reading the discussion on this and frequency that this occurs, it makes me want to do something about it. As such, I plan to practice second amendment/firearms law/criminal law when I get out of law school (another 6 mos. approx.) and do what I can to hold the state accountable for their actions (although under the law I doubt there is much that can be done other than complaining to the legislature). I let the board know when I setup shop so you guys can send problems/questions to me (it'll be about a year).

    You're right! I was told the same thing by a police officer on Kent Island, that it's a statewide policy that firearms are not to be returned to their owners unless requested, and that even then they should be retained by the state for as long as possible, and as long as there is any kind of legal justification to do so. You see, in their eyes, a gun in their hands means a gun off the streets, even if it was in you possession and not actually ON the streets. Since, hey, gun owners are all basically criminals anyways, right? I mean, they want to own guns, that makes them dangerous! Anyone who goes out of their way to own a gun is obviously someone who shouldn't have one, right?

    Yeah, my buddy had his mossberg taken when they executed a warrant on the house he was staying in. One of the room mates was involved in something and they raided the house. They didn't find anything they came for, but they impounded all the firearms in the house as 'evidence' which included my buddy's shotgun, his father's two revolvers and a remington 742 woodsmaster in .30-06.

    This was seven years ago, and to this day the only one of the firearms that was returned was the hunting rifle. They alternately said at different times that they were 1) lost, 2) destroyed, or 3) sold at government auction by mistake.

    Just FYI, he was never offered to be repaid what the guns went for at auction even, the state basically gave him and his dad a big F-U
     

    Joe Blow

    Joe Blow
    Feb 2, 2012
    199
    Southern MD
    Cops came to my house on a break in when I wasn't home, looked around and saw the mag I had on my desk, asked was I armed, I said yep, and he left saying looks like everythings covered here. Different strokes
     
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