M16A2

Uh oh, this thread seems to be going in the "clip vs magazine" direction!

BlueFin said:

Just the flat top AR15. M16 would be nice. We have a few of this Vietnam era in the PI.

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Back in the PI they have a different way of calling these things:

Armalite AR15 Vietnam Era = Armalite ( all A1's fall in this catergory) or Plastic
All M16s/ AR15 are called Armalite. ( regardless of manufacturer, a Colt is still called an Armalite)
CAR-15= Baby Armalite
M16/ M203= Double body


45 ACP 1911 pistol= Quarenta y cinco or Bakal ( slang for steel)

pilotguy said:

Uh oh, this thread seems to be going in the "clip vs magazine" direction!

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My M16 has clips that hold 30 bullets!

SCARCQB said:

Back in the PI they have a different way of calling these things:

Armalite AR15 Vietnan Era = Armalite ( all A1's fall in this catergory)
All M16s/ AR15 are called Armalite.
CAR-15= Baby Armalite
M16/ M203= Double body

45 ACP 1911 pistol= Quarenta y cinco or Bakal ( slang for steel)

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They have a nickname for everything and everyone

JKrew said:

I did, but then later they still call it the wrong thing again. I guess it's just because they are as interested in guns... At least they are pro-gun rights.

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An M16 falls under the NFA laws and is a term name used for a family of Assault Rifles. Assault Rifles are magazine fed, intermediate powered , selective fire capable , shoulder fired weapons. A weapon must have all these mentioned characteristics to fall into the Assault rifle group.

Calling an AR15 an M16 is not right as the Antigun ( Cant fix stupid) groups will think that all ARs are capable of selective fire and they function the same way as machineguns.

This misuse of nomenclature can often lead to misinformation. An AR15 is simply a semi- automatic rifle. Nothing more, nothing less. An AR15 legally converted into a selective fire weapon, is a true assault rifle. But it can only be available as a post 86" NFA item that is extremely restricted and regulated by the government. You cant just go to a gunstore and buy a 20' Colt m16 A2. It would be nice it that were true. Similarities between M16s and AR15s are cosmetic. The old saying that if it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck, makes it a duck. Does not apply in this case.

Pre 86' Tranferrables Colt factory M16s are available but may run about 15-24K with current prices. These are rare and only a small number of people own them privately.

Wow!! I stand corrected guys and appreciate the input. I grew up with M16s arround the house and for me they still look like M16s as of today. I do not have a problem calling them either way. Tell you what ,if I hold an AR15 type rifle and the plunger facing you, do you know what it is? Can you really tell if it an M16 or A15? Or an M4 or a M4gery? If a Lexus IS pass you by not seeing the branding behind, you call it a Lexus IS right? I am not anal bout those things but I appreciate and am proud knowing that some or most of us are fully aware of these thing.

Anyways,,So somebody has one for me to shoot this weekend at Cresap? I will bring my own ammo.

Thanks

BlueFin said:

Wow!! I stand corrected guys and appreciate the input. I grew up with M16s arround the house and for me they still look like M16s as of today. I do not have a problem calling them either way. Tell you what ,if I hold an AR15 type rifle and the plunger facing you, do you know what it is? Can you really tell if it an M16 or A15? Or an M4 or a M4gery? If a Lexus IS pass you by not seeing the branding behind, you call it a Lexus IS right? I am not anal bout those things but I appreciate and am proud knowing that some or most of us are fully aware of these thing.

Anyways,,So somebody has one for me to shoot this weekend at Cresap? I will bring my own ammo.

Thanks

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You can tell if its an M16 if you have a hole/ pin drilled right below the forward assist or above the safety/ selector. This is the Autosear pin that makes it have selective fire capability. Drilling this hole without NFA approval will make your standard AR an illegal machinegun. regardless if you have full auto parts installed or not.

One may argue that an installation of a DIAS ( drop in autosear) or lightning link will give the select fire capability to a gun, but does not make that weapon into an m16. It makes it into a SEAR or lightning Link HOST firearm. There are differences and I'm sure that the NFA gurus will chime in soon too.

Fivepointstar has an agency issued 20" Ar with this feature ( Lucky dog!)

Scar

So do you call the M16/A2 a submachine gun, semi auto rifle or an assault rifle? I have also seen what are reffered to as an M16/A2 semiauto rifle but capable of a 3 round burst. hmm so many type of type of this gun. I'll stick with AR15 then.

BlueFin said:

So do you call the M16/A2 a submachine gun, semi auto rifle or an assault rifle? I have also seen what are reffered to as an M16/A2 semiauto rifle but capable of a 3 round burst. hmm so many type of type of this gun. I'll stick with AR15 then.

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A select fire M16 firing 5.56 -- assault rifle (fires an intermediate cartridge)
AR-15 -- semi-auto rifle
M16 firing 9mm -- submachine gun (pistol cartridge)

squeky said:

A select fire M16 firing 5.56 -- assault rifle (fires an intermediate cartridge)
AR-15 -- semi-auto rifle
M16 firing 9mm -- submachine gun (pistol cartridge)

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+1 on this

M16 selective fire 5.56, 7.62 any intermediate power cartridge is an Assault rifle

M16 Selective fire 9mm or any pistol cartridge is a Submachinegun

M16 Selective Fire no Stock, just a buffer tube or modified recoils system is a machine pistol. ( not a shoulder fired weapon)

M16 Selective Fire No stock, Threaded collar, no sights used a Machinegun for a tank or APC is called a " Port Firing Device"

M16 Selective Fire Short barrel ( 10.5-11.5) A1 sights,CAR stock w/ Moderator is a CAR15 ( XM-177)

M16 Selective Fire 14.5" bbl, light barrel countour under the handguards, m203 relief cut, m4 stock, 1/7 twist, Flat top or A2 sights is an M4

M16 Selective fire have different versions ( AR15 armalites, prior to military adoption for general issue- Military Vietnam era, A1 ( triangular handguards), A2 ( 20" round handguards, a2 sights) A3 ( 20" burst fire- full stock) A4 (20" flat top, burst fire) M4s ( A1 or A2, A1 have burst fire and A2 have full auto selectors), M16 SMGs ( mostly 9mm)

AR10 selective Fire/ Semi Auto 308 or any full powered is a Battle Rifle
Battle rifles can be Semi, selective fire or bolt action

AR15 Semi- Auto 22/LR/ 5.56-50 cal is Semi- auto Rifle ( AR15 types semi autos in general, Clones, Colt semi- autos, HBARS, M4geries Etc)
AR15 Semi- Auto .410 Shotshells= Semi- auto shotgun if registered as so, If the upper is a conversion unit, It is still classified a semi- auto rifle.
M16 Automatic fire only - Open bolt , heavy barrel is a SAW= Squad automatic rifle or light machinegun.


Note:
BY NFA law, Any firearm capable of discharging multiple rounds with a single pull of the trigger is a machinegun. Machineguns can be Beltfeds, Heavy , light, SAWs, Assault rifles, battle Rifles, Carbines, Subcarbines, Machinepistols, Selective fire shotguns, Some Bumpfiring devices. A firearm that looks like a machinegun does not make it a machinegun. So calling an AR15 an M16 is really incorrect and should be discouraged.

Confused yet?

SCARCQB said:

+1 on this

M16 selective fire 5.56, 7.62 any intermediate power cartridge is an Assault rifle

M16 Selective fire 9mm or any pistol cartridge is a Submachinegun

M16 Selective Fire no Stock, just a buffer tube or modified recoils system is a machine pistol. ( not a shoulder fired weapon)

AR10 selective Fire/ Semi Auto 308 or any full powered is a Battle Rifle
Battle rifles can be Semi, selective fire or bolt action

AR15 Semi- Auto 22/LR/ 5.56-50 cal is Semi- auto Rifle
AR15 Semi- Auto .410 Shotshells= Semi- auto shotgun if registered as so, If the upper is a conversion unit, It is still classified a semi- auto rifle.
M16 Automatic fire only - Open bolt , heavy barrel is a SAW= Squad automatic rifle or light machinegun.

Confused yet?

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Yep

http://www.armystudyguide.com/content/army_board_study_guide_topics/m16a2/m16a2-study-guide.shtml

SCARCQB said:

M16 Automatic fire only - Open bolt , heavy barrel is a SAW= Squad automatic rifle or light machinegun.

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Wow, I totally didn't know the SAW was open bolt. That's pretty cool.

squeky said:

Wow, I totally didn't know the SAW was open bolt. That's pretty cool.

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Yup, most automatic rifles or machineguns used as a SAW fire from an open bolt. Firing from a closed bolt with high rates/ volumes of fire can result in a " cook-off" condition.

Cook-off is an occurance where a chambered cartridge will discharged because of the heat that is retained by the chamber.

Most beltfeds including the FN M249 Minimi/ Saw, Israeli Negev, SKI Ultimax 100s fire from Open bolts. This is also true for many subguns like the UZI, MACs, Thompsons, MP40s, PPSh, Stens, Sterlings just to name a few.

Colt SMGs and HK MP5s are a few SMG that fire from a closed bolt position. That is why these guns are well known for delivering accurate fire . Thev receivers on these guns act like a big heat sink to dissipate heat.

SCARCQB said:

Yup, most automatic rifles or machineguns used as a SAW fire from an open bolt. Firing from a closed bolt with high rates/ volumes of fire can result in a " cook-off" condition.

Cook-off is an occurance where a chambered cartridge will discharged because of the heat that is retained by the chamber.

Most beltfeds including the FN M249 Minimi/ Saw, Israeli Negev, SKI Ultimax 100s fire from Open bolts. This is also true for many subguns like the UZI, MACs, Thompsons, MP40s, PPSh, Stens, Sterlings just to name a few.

Colt SMGs and HK MP5s are a few SMG that fire from a closed bolt position. That is why these guns are well known for delivering accurate fire . Thev receivers on these guns act like a big heat sink to dissipate heat.

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I've read that the SAW will sometimes go cyclic anyway I think...

Good times with the Philippine Army Scout Rangers ( Special forces- Southern Phillipines)
M16s,M203s, M14s, 60s and AUGS
By the way, Dont xxck with the Medic.

Are you in the pics SCAR?

fivepointstar said:

Are you in the pics SCAR?

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Heheheh.. I cant answer that.

Lets just say I was in the area.