Does a frame require an HQL?

ken792 · Sep 5, 2014

jr88 said:
This is a great question and I have also wondered about it, especially since the change of heart on the lowers. However I think it's still a no. They have always required an FFL and other states that sell AR's as C/C require an FFL for handgun frames. I have never seen a Handgun frame on GB that didn't require an FFL, so I wouldn't think Md. would allow it.

Of course frames require an FFL for interstate commerce, but in most other states, you can FTF a frame or stripped receiver intrastate just like you can a complete firearm. I can't see why a frame would require an HQL when an AR lower doesn't. Both can be built into a rifle or pistol.

OrbitalEllipses · Sep 5, 2014

ken792 said:
I'd think that's an FFL covering his ass more so than the law or Licensing Division specifying that.

MD law requires a shell casing from new handguns. Since they don't/can't take a shell casing from a frame, then I'd think that implies that MD doesn't consider them handguns. Also last I checked, there are no frames on the handgun roster, so MD shouldn't consider them handguns.

There are frames on the Handgun Roster.

e.g Caspian https://www.mdsp.org/Organization/S...e/HandgunRoster/HandgunModels.aspx?manu=18002

Legally speaking, per the ATF, the frame or receiver is the firearm. A firearm is not a handgun per se, but a handgun is a firearm.

ken792 · Sep 5, 2014

OrbitalEllipses said:
There are frames on the Handgun Roster.

e.g Caspian https://www.mdsp.org/Organization/S...e/HandgunRoster/HandgunModels.aspx?manu=18002

Legally speaking, per the ATF, the frame or receiver is the firearm. A firearm is not a handgun per se, but a handgun is a firearm.

Hmm, then I guess that an FFL should make a case that frames do not need to be on the roster, or that the ones that are on the roster do not need an HQL.

jr88 · Sep 5, 2014

ken792 said:
Hmm, then I guess that an FFL should make a case that frames do not need to be on the roster, or that the ones that are on the roster do not need an HQL.

Yea you could try that. Also, why don't you just look for an 80% frame, I know there are plenty of 1911 80's out there maybe you can find a glock.

ken792 · Sep 5, 2014

jr88 said:
Yea you could try that. Also, why don't you just look for an 80% frame, I know there are plenty of 1911 80's out there maybe you can find a glock.

I don't really want another handgun at the moment, but it's the principle of the matter. I kind of want to buy a Glock lower half to show how stupid MD's gun laws are (as if they need any help). If I can't "build" my own Glock from upper and lower halves, then I'll do an AR pistol build.

OrbitalEllipses · Sep 5, 2014

ken792 said:
Hmm, then I guess that an FFL should make a case that frames do not need to be on the roster, or that the ones that are on the roster do not need an HQL.

That requires money for a lawyer and possibly for a lawsuit. Given the current situation, this would be low priority. Beyond that, we have a history of not supporting the FFL(s) who do fight for rights...so why would they help. Not that many folks are looking for frames anyway.

-Z/28- · Sep 5, 2014

Waz said:
if a FFL decided to sell a glock mechtech carbine, would it be cash and carry or require HQL?

I'd like to know this as well.

ken792 · Sep 5, 2014

OrbitalEllipses said:
That requires money for a lawyer and possibly for a lawsuit. Given the current situation, this would be low priority. Beyond that, we have a history of not supporting the FFL(s) who do fight for rights...so why would they help. Not that many folks are looking for frames anyway.

Because then they can make more handgun sales if they could sell frame assemblies without an HQL, and then either have the customer order the slide assembly on their own, or attach it for free once the customer has already bought and taken possession of the frame.

OrbitalEllipses · Sep 5, 2014

That's romanticized. Building a frame and attaching a slide is not just A+B; there's filing, fitting, timing, gunsmithing in general required. Joe Schmoe doesn't want to do that, but he also doesn't want an HQL, so he just doesn't have a handgun. That's no issue to him, as shown by handgun sales recently.

jr88 · Sep 5, 2014

ken792 said:
Because then they can make more handgun sales if they could sell frame assemblies without an HQL, and then either have the customer order the slide assembly on their own, or attach it for free once the customer has already bought and taken possession of the frame.

I am assuming you are a young man (UMD Mention), so while I agree with your point I suggest you move on and deal with the current laws or leave Md. It isn't worth the effort and it will bring attention to other issues. I am surprised how they are currently handling AR lowers. I fully expect that to change in the next few years or as soon as someone gets caught with an AR pistol anywhere near a crime.

ken792 · Sep 5, 2014

OrbitalEllipses said:
That's romanticized. Building a frame and attaching a slide is not just A+B; there's filing, fitting, timing, gunsmithing in general required. Joe Schmoe doesn't want to do that, but he also doesn't want an HQL, so he just doesn't have a handgun. That's no issue to him, as shown by handgun sales recently.

I'm aware how much work goes into a 1911 build, but isn't a Glock a drop in fit?

jr88 said:
I am assuming you are a young man (UMD Mention), so while I agree with your point I suggest you move on and deal with the current laws or leave Md. It isn't worth the effort and it will bring attention to other issues. I am surprised how they are currently handling AR lowers. I fully expect that to change in the next few years or as soon as someone gets caught with an AR pistol anywhere near a crime.

Yep, and it's my intention to get out as soon as I can. I already have the handguns that I "need" and intend to shoot on a regular basis, so it's no big deal if I can or can't get another non C&R handgun while I'm in MD. If I get anything else, it would be just purely because I can.

OrbitalEllipses · Sep 5, 2014

ken792 said:
I'm aware how much work goes into a 1911 build, but isn't a Glock a drop in fit?

More or less, I'd assume. Why would you build a Glock though? They're cheap and you'll spend more making one than buying one. Buy a used full gun, sell frame or slide, repeat as needed.

ken792 · Sep 5, 2014

OrbitalEllipses said:
More or less, I'd assume. Why would you build a Glock though? They're cheap and you'll spend more making one than buying one. Buy a used full gun, sell frame or slide, repeat as needed.

It's just the principle of being able to get one without an HQL to build a handgun out of. Someone without an HQL might be willing to pay a little extra to get a lower assembly from an FFL, and the upper assembly online. Then all he'd have to do is put them together, no different than field stripping.

hogarth · Sep 5, 2014

OrbitalEllipses said:
More or less, I'd assume. Why would you build a Glock though? They're cheap and you'll spend more making one than buying one. Buy a used full gun, sell frame or slide, repeat as needed.

First of all, yes, it is a drop in fit.

Secondly, sometimes companies have sales on either complete uppers or lowers, so you can break even with a new whole gun.

A frame is also useful if you want a dedicated .22, like with an Advantage Arms upper.

I bought a frame because a friend sold me his slide that was pre milled for an RMR. So now I have a dedicated 19 with an RMR and another 19 (that I already had) without an RMR.

OrbitalEllipses · Sep 5, 2014

Sounds like a minority of people would like to buy GLOCK frames without an HQL. As I said, buy used gun, sell frame or slide, repeat as needed.

Blacksmith101 · Sep 5, 2014

The handgun roster also lists T/C Contender and Encore frames because they can be either a pistol or carbine.

hogarth · Sep 5, 2014

OrbitalEllipses said:
Sounds like a minority of people would like to buy GLOCK frames without an HQL. As I said, buy used gun, sell frame or slide, repeat as needed.

How does one buy a used Glock w/o an HQL? This ain't Texas.

redeemed.man · Sep 24, 2014

Anyone here ever built a 1911 from something like this?

Is this legal to ship to MD? No FFL needed? No serial number needed? No HQL needed?

If so does anyone want to help me by building a 1911 for me?

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/80-1911-lower-receiver?a=1747831

ken792 · Sep 24, 2014

boundlessdyad said:
Is this legal to ship to MD? No FFL needed? No serial number needed? No HQL needed?

If so does anyone want to help me by building a 1911 for me?

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/80-1911-lower-receiver?a=1747831

Yes, it's legally no more than a paper weight.

redeemed.man · Sep 24, 2014

ken792 said:
Yes, it's legally no more than a paper weight.

Have you built one before? I'd be very interested in doing a build like this.

Does a frame require an HQL?

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