Cabellas DE WILL NOT SELL 15-22..

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  • Mr H

    Banana'd
    I'm not sure that is how a gun part is defined. I can mail many items from an AR to folks except the lower receiver - bbl, flash hider, upper, etc., and those are gun parts.

    While true, you need to consider the Federal definition of "firearm".

    The magazine is not covered under that definition, which makes the mag no different than a dust cover... This alone makes Cabela's policy problematic.

    But, I don't see them setting up inventory channels just for MD, NY, CT, CA......
     
    Feb 28, 2013
    28,953
    You would just think a big corporate company like that would be up on all the laws of the surrounding states so they can make a bigger profit.

    I mean really, how hard is it for their lawyers to sit down and figure it out then send each store the proper guidelines and laws. This isn't some mom and pop firearms shop, this is a company that does 3+ billion in sales

    Exactly. So what do they need us MD idiots for?:rolleyes:
     

    Devil Dog

    Active Member
    Sep 20, 2013
    587
    While true, you need to consider the Federal definition of "firearm".

    The magazine is not covered under that definition, which makes the mag no different than a dust cover... This alone makes Cabela's policy problematic.

    But, I don't see them setting up inventory channels just for MD, NY, CT, CA......
    Again, this is all meant in the spirit of a theoretical debate, and not as some sort of flame war. The written word sometimes come out much harsher than it is meant, so if I come across that my apologies.

    Also, I'm now believing that this is indeed a corporate policy not based on any in-depth legal analysis on Cabella's part, but rather based on fear.

    What you say is true. But is a folding stock or a flash hider considered a firearm?

    It would be illegal under federal law for a Delaware FFL to sell a Maryland resident an M1 Carbine with both those items attached, since it would be in an illegal configuration as a Copycat Weapon.

    But that same FFL could remove either item (say, the FH) and then sell the M1 Carbine and the FH separately.

    Now, that isn't a perfect analogy since Copycat Weapon is a defined, prohibited class of weapon.

    But the central point remains. A legal item (a flash hider or a folding stock) can render an otherwise legal rifle (an M1 Carbine) illegal to sell in Maryland, and hence illegal to sell to a Maryland resident in another state (under federal law).

    It isn't an off-the-wall theory, then, for a corporation to believe that selling to a Maryland resident an otherwise legal rifle WITH a > 10-round magazine would also be a violation of federal law. Even if that same Maryland resident could legally buy the rifle and the magazine separately outside of Maryland.

    Does that make the theory correct? No. It may well be wrong. But it isn't far fetched and I certainly wouldn't die of shock if MSP issued some sort of advisory to that effect.
     

    Mr H

    Banana'd
    No flaming assumed!! No worries.

    The distinction, here (as I see it), is that the components you mention are integral to the firearm, which makes it banned under MD law. They are defined as a portion of the law which specifically addresses those components.

    Magazines are not included in those definitions, but rather are covered under separate language.

    I can't see how Federal law factors in to the magazine question.

    We're all in agreement, I think, that the Cabela's policy is misguided. Where there seems to be a difference is in whether they could/would change it and be in compliance with MD law.

    IMO, the answer is yes... but it would require them to set up separate channels for the various configurations required by the assorted stupid states.
     

    John from MD

    American Patriot
    MDS Supporter
    May 12, 2005
    22,733
    Socialist State of Maryland
    I suggest a letter writing campaign to the Nebraska headquarters. I did this years ago when they wouldn't sell C&R pistols to Maryland. I convinced an exec VP to change the policy and they did. Cabela's is a gun friendly company; they just need to be shown the cause and effect of their policy.

    Regards,

    John
     

    Devil Dog

    Active Member
    Sep 20, 2013
    587
    You would just think a big corporate company like that would be up on all the laws of the surrounding states so they can make a bigger profit.

    I mean really, how hard is it for their lawyers to sit down and figure it out then send each store the proper guidelines and laws. This isn't some mom and pop firearms shop, this is a company that does 3+ billion in sales
    Not hard at all. I've been that guy (in other contexts). Usually, industry groups do this too, so where is the NRA on this? (Serious question)
     

    Mr H

    Banana'd
    Not hard at all. I've been that guy (in other contexts). Usually, industry groups do this too, so where is the NRA on this? (Serious question)

    NRA can't do it all (nor do they want to).

    I would think this more the purview of NSSF and/or GOA.

    Or (and this is to the room), do as has been mentioned a couple times already, get on the horn to Cabela's and let them know it's a problem.
     

    Brooklyn

    I stand with John Locke.
    Jan 20, 2013
    13,095
    Plan D? Not worth the hassle.
    I'm not sure that is how a gun part is defined. I can mail many items from an AR to folks except the lower receiver - bbl, flash hider, upper, etc., and those are gun parts.

    and you can buy them from a non ffl. The reason Md law applies at all is because FFL are operating under a grant of licence, revocable at will ( itself unconstitutional under due process ) which requires them to to be bound by the Federal governments interpretation of a state law. Given AFT's record of getting shot down in court , when challenged, ATF mostly enforces based on the threat of lic revocation.


    Cabellas could legally sell me every part of that gun other than the serialized part.

    The real issue is that they are in some cases spreading misinformation -- that MD residents can not buy + 10 rnd magazines out of state.

    Frankly I am glad I did not buy it-- I am out of money anyhow :)
     

    Brooklyn

    I stand with John Locke.
    Jan 20, 2013
    13,095
    Plan D? Not worth the hassle.
    Again, this is all meant in the spirit of a theoretical debate, and not as some sort of flame war. The written word sometimes come out much harsher than it is meant, so if I come across that my apologies.

    Also, I'm now believing that this is indeed a corporate policy not based on any in-depth legal analysis on Cabella's part, but rather based on fear.

    What you say is true. But is a folding stock or a flash hider considered a firearm?

    It would be illegal under federal law for a Delaware FFL to sell a Maryland resident an M1 Carbine with both those items attached, since it would be in an illegal configuration as a Copycat Weapon.

    But that same FFL could remove either item (say, the FH) and then sell the M1 Carbine and the FH separately.

    Now, that isn't a perfect analogy since Copycat Weapon is a defined, prohibited class of weapon.

    But the central point remains. A legal item (a flash hider or a folding stock) can render an otherwise legal rifle (an M1 Carbine) illegal to sell in Maryland, and hence illegal to sell to a Maryland resident in another state (under federal law).

    It isn't an off-the-wall theory, then, for a corporation to believe that selling to a Maryland resident an otherwise legal rifle WITH a > 10-round magazine would also be a violation of federal law. Even if that same Maryland resident could legally buy the rifle and the magazine separately outside of Maryland.

    Does that make the theory correct? No. It may well be wrong. But it isn't far fetched and I certainly wouldn't die of shock if MSP issued some sort of advisory to that effect.


    Cabellas is to firearms what McDonalds is to a steak house.. They need dirt simple policies to keep their employees from screwing up.. Having made the error of asking a few technical questions I agree with the policy .. but they need to post it as a policy not a misstatement of the law. In fact they are at risk of giving legal advice when they say things like that .. what if i did not know the law -- would I as a new gun owner now assume I could get a 15-22 anywhere.

    Cabelas like Bass Pro gets a lot of newbes due to its high visibility and advertising budget -- Bass pro is where I got my first gun -- i knew of no one else yet -- so this is an issue. Today I send nebees anywhere but a bid box store --- lits of IP's here get mentioned but I had no help when I started
     

    Devil Dog

    Active Member
    Sep 20, 2013
    587
    Frankly I am glad I did not buy it-- I am out of money anyhow :)

    Some of the best decisions I ever made were those that were made for me!

    You know, like when you bid on an item at auction and are actually relieved when someone outbids you.
     
    Feb 28, 2013
    28,953
    No flaming assumed!! No worries.

    The distinction, here (as I see it), is that the components you mention are integral to the firearm, which makes it banned under MD law. They are defined as a portion of the law which specifically addresses those components.

    But any firearm is perfectly functional without either one. For example, I don't have a folding stock OR a flash hider on my VZ2008.
     

    EL1227

    R.I.P.
    Patriot Picket
    Nov 14, 2010
    20,274
    Cabellas in PA had the same policy in place for M&P 15 ORC 10rd 2 years ago. It wasn't law back then, and it looks like it's strictly policy now.
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    Share.share.share:D

    At Cabela's last weekend, an inner city type person, NO clue about handguns (did not even seem to know the difference between a revolver and semi auot) looking at a S&W in .500 S&W. :)
     

    Evojoeix

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 2, 2014
    1,292
    At Cabela's last weekend, an inner city type person, NO clue about handguns (did not even seem to know the difference between a revolver and semi auot) looking at a S&W in .500 S&W. :)

    Funny. The first time I was in there looking through the ammo, there was a group of about 3 or 4 of the same type of persons, asking the store worker "what bullets would be best to shoot a person with".... I just walked away and assumed they were talking about home defense
     

    blackseven

    Regular Guy
    Aug 30, 2011
    262
    Bought a Tapco 30rnd and a PMAG 30rnd AK Mag at Cabelas on Saturday. No one checked my ID. Point being... Buy your rifle, Go back and buy your mags (Or pick them up on your way to the front after you buy your rifle).
     

    Evojoeix

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 2, 2014
    1,292
    Bought a Tapco 30rnd and a PMAG 30rnd AK Mag at Cabelas on Saturday. No one checked my ID. Point being... Buy your rifle, Go back and buy your mags (Or pick them up on your way to the front after you buy your rifle).

    They won't sell you the rifle without the mags
     

    Chevyman85

    Active Member
    Feb 14, 2013
    468
    DoCo
    Bought a Tapco 30rnd and a PMAG 30rnd AK Mag at Cabelas on Saturday. No one checked my ID. Point being... Buy your rifle, Go back and buy your mags (Or pick them up on your way to the front after you buy your rifle).

    Did you read the original posts?

    That's not what the issue is. There's no problem with MD residents buying 30rd mags at Cabela's, the counter staff will tell you the same.

    The issue is they will not sell a MD resident a firearm that comes with a mag over 10rds even though it is legal for us to buy in surrounding states so long as the firearm is not banned in MD.

    Issue #2 is that they are also lying to people telling them that this is the law when reality is that it's a store policy.

    If they'd post it as store policy and stop spreading misinformation then that's fine as it's their store their rules. Just stop saying it's the law when it isn't.
     

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