SBR's in MD, ATF needs your help!

Alright kids, I finally got some strait answers from Jason Dicken (Primary MD NFA examiner), who by the way is a very nice guy, and is just scared sh!t-less and totally stressed out over this issue. He is literally scared to answer calls he knows to be from Maryland, because he/they (ATF) are totally lost again concerning the new MD gun laws. It is by their interpretation, the worst law written, concerning firearms, that they've ever seen. We couldn’t agree more and had a nice chuckle over its stupidity.

I can't believe I'm about to say this, but the ATF needs our help!

First, they are under the interpretation that the MSP Licensing Div, Advisory LD-FRS-14-002, SBS & SBR that was sent out, they think was ACTUALLY WRITTEN BY CPL EDWARDS!!! Jaw dropping, I know. Therefore, when the changeover between examiners like Ted Clutter, to now Jason Dicken and a couple others, the ATF legal counsel had reviewed the MD law again, and like before couldn't make heads or tails of it. I think Ted may have gotten a “talk'n to” for not further investigating 110% all of MD gun laws.

Second, since they are under the impression that the SBR Advisory was not written by the overall authority concerning Maryland firearms, they could not use it as justification for what's legal and what’s not. This is where the comments like "ATF is requesting a letter from the AG" came from. I promptly told him that the MSP Licensing Division IS in fact the regulatory authority concerning firearms within the state of Maryland, and that they’re even the Federal NICS state representative for handguns and some receivers. In which he responded, “if you can get/show us in the law where that is stated and perhaps a letter from the MSP Licensing Division, stating as such then we'll start approving forms right now”! Until then, they are too scared and will probably deny or hold every From 1 until they get something in writing or cited in MD law that spells out specifically what is legal and what is not.

Finally, he is currently taking my cover letter and other associated statuary law subtitles that I had attached to my SBR Form 1 application, to their legal council and is awaiting something FROM US "THE COMMUNITY" to help them understand who the regulatory authority within the state of Maryland is. Jason and I read through the law again together, and he personally now finally understands that SBR's DO NOT have to be on the handgun roster board, which was also another big question they had lingering.

So... COMMUNITY, quickly where is stated in statutory law or in COMAR that MSP Licensing Division (how did they get this power) is the regulatory authority within the state of Maryland concerning firearms. I know it’s crazy, but as soon as they get more of this kind of information, then the quicker they’ll start releasing Form 1’s.

Also anyone that's in current contact with CPL Edwards, please call/email him very soon and see if he can help with the matter. Specifically in the form of another written letter. or something else the ATF examiners can use to take to their lawyers.

This is no sh!t what we gotta do, so let’s get it done!

Subbed.

Mr. Dicken also stated that this is "his baby unfortunately" and that as soon as I/we find this info, email him at his ATF account and resubmit my Form 1 right away.

What you're nominally looking for is some sort of language like "the secretary shall adopt regulations" in relationship to that stuff. I didn't see anything in a very cursory perusal.

What's funny is that the MSP licensing division website says in no uncertain terms that they're the authority. *shrugs*

Again, along with my Form 1, here is my cover and other corresponding attachments that I submitted with the application early October.

View attachment ATF cover letter - Form 1 - 22LR.docx

View attachment MD Article - Criminal Law 4-301 (Assault Weapon Definitions).pdf
View attachment MD Article - Public Safety 5-406 (Handgun Roster).pdf
View attachment MSP Licensing Div - Advisory LD-FRS-14-002 (REVISED) - SBS & SBR - 2014.05.02.pdf

Perhaps something in Engage's response to the state's Motion to Dismiss could be of use here? Click the arrow to go to the post and find the attached docs.

Engage Armament said:

UPDATED.

Please find attached Maryland's motion to dismiss our request for judicial review and our response.

*Once again, if you see something we should be aware of please PM Nate or myself and do not post it publicly*

Click to expand...

OK, here we go:

Public Safety Section 5-101 defines the list of assault long guns, and defines the secretary as the secretary.

Section 5-105 gives the secretary authority to adopt regulations to carry out the subtitle.

This would at least imply that the MSP is the regulatory authority for determining what's an assault long gun.

1) thanks for looking into this, it's reassuring to know they are working on it and at least acknowledge they have/are screwing up.

2) Contact Cpl Edwards immediately. I have never met the guy, but he instantly responded to my email. He will know exactly what gives him authority to do his job.

His email is jason.edwards@maryland.gov

Send him basically the same response you posted above. Tell him you have talked with the ATF and they need reassurance that he has the authority to issue the letter of interpretation that SBR's are pistols.

I emailed him as well, see my post below.

Md. PUBLIC SAFETY Code Ann. § 5-105 (Copy w/ Cite)
Pages: 2
Md. PUBLIC SAFETY Code Ann. § 5-105

Annotated Code of Maryland
Copyright © 2014 by Matthew Bender and Company, Inc., a member of the LexisNexis Group
All rights reserved.

*** Statutes current through 2014 legislation ***

PUBLIC SAFETY
TITLE 5. FIREARMS
SUBTITLE 1. REGULATED FIREARMS

Md. PUBLIC SAFETY Code Ann. § 5-105 (2014)

§ 5-105. Regulations


The Secretary shall adopt regulations to carry out this subtitle.

erwos said:

OK, here we go:

Public Safety Section 5-101 defines the list of assault long guns, and defines the secretary as the secretary.

Section 5-105 gives the secretary authority to adopt regulations to carry out the subtitle.

This would at least imply that the MSP is the regulatory authority for determining what's an assault long gun.

Click to expand...

Yup I see it.

§5–101
(a) In this subtitle the following words have the meanings indicated.
...
(u) “Secretary” means the Secretary of State Police or the Secretary’s designee.

§5–105.
The Secretary shall adopt regulations to carry out this subtitle.


Now who by name is specifically the "Secretary of State Police"?

What is a "Secretary’s designee", assistant maybe?

Md. PUBLIC SAFETY Code Ann. § 5-101 (Copy w/ Cite)
Pages: 11
Md. PUBLIC SAFETY Code Ann. § 5-101

Annotated Code of Maryland
Copyright © 2014 by Matthew Bender and Company, Inc., a member of the LexisNexis Group
All rights reserved.

*** Statutes current through 2014 legislation ***

PUBLIC SAFETY
TITLE 5. FIREARMS
SUBTITLE 1. REGULATED FIREARMS

Md. PUBLIC SAFETY Code Ann. § 5-101 (2014)

§ 5-101. Definitions


(a) In general. -- In this subtitle the following words have the meanings indicated.

(b) Antique firearm. -- "Antique firearm" has the meaning stated in § 4-201 of the Criminal Law Article.

(b-1) Convicted of a disqualifying crime. --

(1) "Convicted of a disqualifying crime" includes:

(i) a case in which a person received probation before judgment for a crime of violence; and

(ii) a case in which a person received probation before judgment in a domestically related crime as defined in § 6-233 of the Criminal Procedure Article.

(2) "Convicted of a disqualifying crime" does not include a case in which a person received a probation before judgment:

(i) for assault in the second degree; or

(ii) that was expunged under Title 10, Subtitle 1 of the Criminal Procedure Article.

(c) Crime of violence. -- "Crime of violence" means:

(1) abduction;

(2) arson in the first degree;

(3) assault in the first or second degree;

(4) burglary in the first, second, or third degree;

(5) carjacking and armed carjacking;

(6) escape in the first degree;

(7) kidnapping;

(8) voluntary manslaughter;

(9) maiming as previously proscribed under former Article 27, § 386 of the Code;

(10) mayhem as previously proscribed under former Article 27, § 384 of the Code;

(11) murder in the first or second degree;

(12) rape in the first or second degree;

(13) robbery;

(14) robbery with a dangerous weapon;

(15) sexual offense in the first, second, or third degree;

(16) an attempt to commit any of the crimes listed in items (1) through (15) of this subsection; or

(17) assault with intent to commit any of the crimes listed in items (1) through (15) of this subsection or a crime punishable by imprisonment for more than 1 year.

(d) Dealer. -- "Dealer" means a person who is engaged in the business of:

(1) selling, renting, or transferring firearms at wholesale or retail; or

(2) repairing firearms.

(e) Dealer's license. -- "Dealer's license" means a State regulated firearms dealer's license.

(f) Designated law enforcement agency. -- "Designated law enforcement agency" means a law enforcement agency that the Secretary designates to process applications to purchase regulated firearms for secondary sales.

(g) Disqualifying crime. -- "Disqualifying crime" means:

(1) a crime of violence;

(2) a violation classified as a felony in the State; or

(3) a violation classified as a misdemeanor in the State that carries a statutory penalty of more than 2 years.

(h) Firearm. --

(1) "Firearm" means:

(i) a weapon that expels, is designed to expel, or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; or

(ii) the frame or receiver of such a weapon.

(2) "Firearm" includes a starter gun.

(i) Firearm applicant. -- "Firearm applicant" means a person who makes a firearm application.

(j) Firearm application. -- "Firearm application" means an application to purchase, rent, or transfer a regulated firearm.

(k) Fugitive from justice. -- "Fugitive from justice" means a person who has fled to avoid prosecution or giving testimony in a criminal proceeding.

(l) Habitual drunkard. -- "Habitual drunkard" means a person who has been found guilty of any three crimes under § 21-902(a), (b), or (c) of the Transportation Article, one of which occurred in the past year.

(m) Habitual user. -- "Habitual user" means a person who has been found guilty of two controlled dangerous substance crimes, one of which occurred in the past 5 years.

(n) Handgun. --

(1) "Handgun" means a firearm with a barrel less than 16 inches in length.

(2) "Handgun" includes signal, starter, and blank pistols.

(o) Handgun qualification license. -- "Handgun qualification license" means a license issued by the Secretary that authorizes a person to purchase, rent, or receive a handgun.

(p) Licensee. -- "Licensee" means a person who holds a dealer's license.

(q) Qualified handgun instructor. -- "Qualified handgun instructor" means a certified firearms instructor who:

(1) is recognized by the Maryland Police and Correctional Training commissions;

(2) has a qualified handgun instructor license issued by the Secretary; or

(3) has a certification issued by a nationally recognized firearms organization.

(r) Regulated firearm. -- "Regulated firearm" means:

(1) a handgun; or

(2) a firearm that is any of the following specific assault weapons or their copies, regardless of which company produced and manufactured that assault weapon:

(i) American Arms Spectre da Semiautomatic carbine;

(ii) AK-47 in all forms;

(iii) Algimec AGM-1 type semi-auto;

(iv) AR 100 type semi-auto;

(v) AR 180 type semi-auto;

(vi) Argentine L.S.R. semi-auto;

(vii) Australian Automatic Arms SAR type semi-auto;

(viii) Auto-Ordnance Thompson M1 and 1927 semi-automatics;

(ix) Barrett light .50 cal. semi-auto;

(x) Beretta AR70 type semi-auto;

(xi) Bushmaster semi-auto rifle;

(xii) Calico models M-100 and M-900;

(xiii) CIS SR 88 type semi-auto;

(xiv) Claridge HI TEC C-9 carbines;

(xv) Colt AR-15, CAR-15, and all imitations except Colt AR-15 Sporter H-BAR rifle;

(xvi) Daewoo MAX 1 and MAX 2, aka AR 100, 110C, K-1, and K-2;

(xvii) Dragunov Chinese made semi-auto;

(xviii) Famas semi-auto (.223 caliber);

(xix) Feather AT-9 semi-auto;

(xx) FN LAR and FN FAL assault rifle;

(xxi) FNC semi-auto type carbine;

(xxii) F.I.E./Franchi LAW 12 and SPAS 12 assault shotgun;

(xxiii) Steyr-AUG-SA semi-auto;

(xxiv) Galil models AR and ARM semi-auto;

(xxv) Heckler and Koch HK-91 A3, HK-93 A2, HK-94 A2 and A3;

(xxvi) Holmes model 88 shotgun;

(xxvii) Avtomat Kalashnikov semiautomatic rifle in any format;

(xxviii) Manchester Arms "Commando" MK-45, MK-9;

(xxix) Mandell TAC-1 semi-auto carbine;

(xxx) Mossberg model 500 Bullpup assault shotgun;

(xxxi) Sterling Mark 6;

(xxxii) P.A.W.S. carbine;

(xxxiii) Ruger mini-14 folding stock model (.223 caliber);

(xxxiv) SIG 550/551 assault rifle (.223 caliber);

(xxxv) SKS with detachable magazine;

(xxxvi) AP-74 Commando type semi-auto;

(xxxvii) Springfield Armory BM-59, SAR-48, G3, SAR-3, M-21 sniper rifle, M1A, excluding the M1 Garand;

(xxxviii) Street sweeper assault type shotgun;

(xxxix) Striker 12 assault shotgun in all formats;

(xl) Unique F11 semi-auto type;

(xli) Daewoo USAS 12 semi-auto shotgun;

(xlii) UZI 9mm carbine or rifle;

(xliii) Valmet M-76 and M-78 semi-auto;

(xliv) Weaver Arms "Nighthawk" semi-auto carbine; or

(xlv) Wilkinson Arms 9mm semi-auto "Terry".

(s) Rent. -- "Rent" means the temporary transfer for consideration of a regulated firearm that is taken from the property of the owner of the regulated firearm.

(t) Secondary sale. -- "Secondary sale" means a sale of a regulated firearm in which neither party to the sale:

(1) is a licensee;

(2) is licensed by the federal government as a firearms dealer;

(3) devotes time, attention, and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of earning a profit through the repeated purchase and resale of firearms; or

(4) repairs firearms as a regular course of trade or business.

(u) Secretary. -- "Secretary" means the Secretary of State Police or the Secretary's designee.

(v) Straw purchase. -- "Straw purchase" means a sale of a regulated firearm in which a person uses another, known as the straw purchaser, to:

(1) complete the application to purchase a regulated firearm;

(2) take initial possession of the regulated firearm; and

(3) subsequently transfer the regulated firearm to the person.

Sorry gents it's 2am here, I'm tired and have a headache from all this crap. I'll email Cpl Edwards tomorrow.

What a cluster.

bobthefisher said:

Sorry gents it's 2am here, I'm tired and have a headache from all this crap. I'll email Cpl Edwards tomorrow.

What a cluster.

Click to expand...

I emailed Cpl Edwards with the following:

Police Cpl. Edwards,

Thanks again for your letter explaining that SBR are not subject to the ban on the sale of "assault long guns" due to them being categorized as handguns.

We (Form 1 applicants) have been in discussion with the ATF on this issue and it seems they have "reviewed" their interpretation of the law. Primarily, they are questioning if the MSP Licensing Division has the authority to issue the bulletin that further clarifies this point.

I hope that you do not take this as demeaning, as I have the highest respect for our police force, but can you provide a document for me to send to the ATF in which you state that you/MSP Licensing Division have the regulatory authority within the state of Maryland concerning firearms and the interpretation of firearms laws.

I realize you have fought this battle before, but it seems they have second-guessed their interpretation and would like to verify that your bulletin has the authority they need to approve future Form 1's for SBR.

Thank you very much for your consideration. You are held in very high regard, by the way, within our community for assisting the law-abiding citizens that feel misrepresented by this law. For that, I genuinely thank you.

-Josh

Click to expand...

Hopefully I will have an answer when you wake up


Or the ATF could just go to the Licensing Division website where it clearly says they "administers the provisions of the Annotated Code of Maryland and COMAR related to: the licensing and registration of firearms; handgun permits; security guards and agencies; and other licensing functions as defined by statute or regulation.

https://www.mdsp.org/organization/supportservicesbureau/licensingdivision/mainlicensingpage.Aspx

bobthefisher said:

Sorry gents it's 2am here, I'm tired and have a headache from all this crap. I'll email Cpl Edwards tomorrow.

What a cluster.

Click to expand...

Well thanks for the lead! Now atleast we have some idea what is going on. Maybe some of our dealers will have some insight on who to contact (pick up the bat phone that calls the commissioner directly etc..).

Has anyone spoken with MSI? This should be something they can help with.

And could this be of some use in the ongoing lawsuit over FSA'13? Something to the effect of "This cluster**** is so bad even the ATF can't figure it out!"

Cpl Edwards responded to my email with the following questions:

Sir,

I will be out of the office until Thursday. What documents/items do you have from the BATFE regarding their request for additional information? In addition, who are you working with at the BATFE?

Click to expand...

I told you guys, he is the man.. Always replies instantly..

Hopefully he will get things worked out.

Hopefully this can be resolved in a timely manner.

Being old an confused, is there anything in Maryland law that gives the MSP the right to interpret the firearms laws?

Thanks, I had though my plans for a SBR were done. I have hope now.