Help Change Maryland CCW Law

miles71 · Jun 30, 2010

My CCW took about 5 months after the application was sent in. The process was not bad, just time consuming.

TD

hairba111 · Jun 30, 2010

Just a little perspective. My NC CCW took about 45 minutes at the County Sheriff's. They took the photo and prints right there. Cost.........TEN DOLLARS.

Nobody · Jun 30, 2010

Abacab said:
Where did you hear that?

I personalaly expierenced that long of a wait. Now this was 10 years or so ago and I was squeaky clean, no paperwork questioned.

Your wait time may be different but until someone says they PERSONALLY have waited a differing amount of time I will have to go with 6 months.

NOBODY

teratos · Jun 30, 2010

Took me 2.5 months. The interview was at my local barracks in Harford County. That was last year.

Todd v. · Jun 30, 2010

Abacab said:
I dropped mine off late March and was told it should be approved any day as my prints were back and my interview was done.

What's your source on the 6 months?

I had mine in my hand in less than 60 days from mailing the app to receiving the permit, This was a year and a half ago....

miles71 · Jun 30, 2010

I think mine would have been only about 2-3 months but the trooper took some time to get the interview set up. Thats what held mine up.

TD

Todd v. · Jun 30, 2010

miles71 said:
I think mine would have been only about 2-3 months but the trooper took some time to get the interview set up. Thats what held mine up.

TD

My trooper actually came to me at work to do the interview..... :thumbsup:

press1280 · Jun 30, 2010

Cary, a few questions: Will this be filed in state court or Federal Court?

Will you have(or already have) a non-resident applicant as part of the group?

What about going after information regarding individuals who do get unrestricted permits(to expose equal protection/cronyism abuses)?

press1280 · Jun 30, 2010

ezliving said:
I don't know the strategy being considered, Cary, but it seems to me that applying for a "may-issue permit" for a fundamental constitutional right is not the best path.

I think Maryland has 3 options:

Constitutional Carry, like Arizona and Alaska.

Open Carry (which should be the default law at this moment)

Shall Issue, like Virginia.

Maryland's "May Issue CCW permit" without an existing lawful Open Carry standard for adults (except felons and mentally ill) is, today, I believe unconstitutional.

I think Open Carry, at a minimum, is the law of the land today.

The court test would be for a dozen folks (attorneys?) to have a peaceful open carry lunch at the Inner Harbor and defy the cops to do something about it. Media welcome.

Will Maryland try to enforce unconstitutional laws? Maybe. Maybe not. They are prosecuting wiretap cases for videorecording cops in public performing official duties. Smart, they are not.

The reason for this action is to basically force MD into "shall-issue" whether the "need" requirement be struck down or simply neutered so "self-defense" will qualify as "need".
Trying to get any unlicensed carry at this point will be outrunning your coverage.

Bikebreath · Jul 1, 2010

***Reminder; Post #43, second paragraph, by Cary says:

"Obviously, caution dictates that anyone to be involved not discuss strategy via the internet. I'd be happy to have a detailed discussion over the telephone with any interested member of this group - particularly those who have applied for and been denied permits in the past three years."

Abacab · Jul 1, 2010

Todd v. said:
My trooper actually came to me at work to do the interview.....

Wow. Who was that?

OrangeSpear · Jul 1, 2010

maybe someone can clarify this for me.

If you dont fit into one of the four categories, then why would I apply. I would like to apply but the only category i would come close to fitting into is f) Personal Protection, but i have no documented evidence of recent threats, robberies, and/or assaults, supported by official police reports or notarized statements from witnesses.

advice?

ADDITIONAL DOCUMENTS REQUIRED PER HANDGUN PERMIT CATEGORY:
a) Owner or Employee of a Business: Submit photocopies of the Traders License or Business License, and if the purpose of the permit is for:
(i) Making deposits: Photocopies of six (6) random deposit slips for the business showing the deposits within a year of the application submission date or a letter from the bank attesting that your business has a monetary flow.
(ii) Cash Flow: Photocopies of Ten (10) receipts showing purchases for supplies and/or payments received for services.
(iii) Requesting a permit for one of your employees, or if you are an employee and you have permission from your employer to obtain a permit: A letter from your employer on the business stationery, explaining in detail why you need to carry a gun as part of your duties.
b) Professional Activities: Doctors, Pharmacies, etc., Must show evidence of legitimacy of business activity and valid certification or license.
c) Correctional Officers: Must submit verification of employment and documentation of threats and assaults.
d) Former Police Officer: If you have resigned or retired, you must show evidence of your tenure in law enforcement, such as a letter from your Agency.
2
e) Private Detective/Security Guard/Special Police & Railroad Police Commissions: All applicants who are employed as Private Detectives, Security Guards, Special Police, and Railroad Police, must submit a certification of qualification with a handgun from a Maryland State Police Certified Handgun Instructor on an MSP form. A copy of the form letter supporting “good and substantial reasons,” ownership of weapon, and location where the weapon will be maintained, is also required. (This form can be obtained from your employer).
f) Personal Protection: There must be documented evidence of recent threats, robberies, and/or assaults, supported by official police reports or notarized statements from witnesses.
Information above found from this link -- http://www.mdsp.org/downloads/licensing_application.pdf

Abacab · Jul 1, 2010

You would just apply under personal protection sans the documents.

OrangeSpear · Jul 1, 2010

Abacab said:
You would just apply under personal protection sans the documents.

what is 'sans the documents.'?

Lindsay's Dad · Jul 1, 2010

It means without.

I thought just crossed my mind, we are all concentrating ont the "good and Substaintial Reason" part but doesn't the recent ruling by the USSC also throw out the 3 references part? After all Why would our rights be subject to how an interviewer interprets what someone says about us. It should be based on objective criteria, yes?

LD

K-Romulus · Jul 1, 2010

Lindsay's Dad said:
It means without.

I thought just crossed my mind, we are all concentrating ont the "good and Substaintial Reason" part but doesn't the recent ruling by the USSC also throw out the 3 references part? After all Why would our rights be subject to how an interviewer interprets what someone says about us. It should be based on objective criteria, yes?

LD

Absolutely in my opinion. If MD went fair-issue, I am not sure I can get three friends who live in MD to agree to be references due to anti-gun views or general discomfort with the whole process. Three friends who live in VA = no problem for me, and I did it back when Utah required references.

teratos · Jul 1, 2010

Lindsay's Dad said:
I thought just crossed my mind, we are all concentrating ont the "good and Substaintial Reason" part but doesn't the recent ruling by the USSC also throw out the 3 references part? After all Why would our rights be subject to how an interviewer interprets what someone says about us. It should be based on objective criteria, yes?

LD

You are correct. There should not need to be references. When MD goes "shall issue" it will be unfeasible anyway. The only criteria should be citizenship, and you are not a serial murderer or nuts.

OrangeSpear · Jul 1, 2010

i think it cost $112.25 to apply but im willing to try, even if there is no refund.

Abacab · Jul 1, 2010

OrangeSpear said:
i think it cost $112.25 to apply but im willing to try, even if there is no refund.

They don't issue refunds, as far as I know. The current 'policy' is to just return your cheque and tell you not to bother - or so I've heard.

fightinbluhen51 · Jul 1, 2010

ATTYSHOOTER said:
I'm glad to have opened such a healthy discussion and I appreciate all of the questions and viewpoints about various approaches to any lawsuit to be filed.

Obviously, caution dictates that anyone to be involved not discuss strategy via the internet. I'd be happy to have a detailed discussion over the telephone with any interested member of this group - particularly those who have applied for and been denied permits in the past three years.

Also, I should say thank you to those who have already responded. We will be following up with you.

For those who were rightly interested in my background and motivation, I couldn't agree more with your concerns. It is extremely important that the initial cases be brought by the right people (speaking of both the lawyers involved and the plaintiffs). This is why it is so important that we hear from potential plaintiffs as soon as possible.

For my part, I am happy to discuss a little of my own background. I have been practicing law for more than a decade with the majority of my practice focused in civil rights and, in particular, fighting government encroachment on those rights.

I've successfully litigated against a municipality's attempt to ban smoking (even outdoors on your own property), a town's attempt to annex a portion of the county where residents wished not to be annexed, a rent control ordinance which discriminated against students, a government-established monopoly on the funeral home business, a wide variety of discrimination including reverse discrimination, unlawful terminations for political purposes, and police misconduct.

I have what the Washington Post called the largest verdict ever against Prince George's County for civil rights violations.

I have served as an officer or sat on the Board of a number of legal associations, including the Maryland Association for Justice.

I have won awards for my work, including from the Maryland Trial Lawyer’s Association and the ACLU. I have also provided media commentary to most local media outlets including the local network television news programs, the Washington Post and the Baltimore Sun.

The firm where I am a shareholder has been in Maryland for more than 40 years. We have 35 attorneys and offices in Rockville and Greenbelt. I joined this particular firm because of its historic reputation for defending the civil rights of Maryland citizens.

Finally, I can tell you that while we reserve the right to seek fees from the state, court-awarded fees are usually a small fraction of what a civil attorney might earn on other matters. In other words, our efforts will be largely, if not entirely uncompensated.

Fortunately, our practice is successful enough that those of us with a particular interest in an issue have some freedom to pursue it. Which brings me to my interest. I grew up in West Virginia where gun ownership was virtually universal. Like many of you, my father gave me my first rifle for Christmas when I was 12 and I have enjoyed shooting and associated activities ever since. In fact, I recently purchased enough land in Southern Maryland to build a small private range.

But more than my interest in firearms, I am dedicated to our Constitution and to seeing that every right in it is reserved to the people to the greatest extent possible. I have pursed this goal without regard to politics or which party was encroaching on which civil liberty with the consistent aim being to defend and secure our rights. This is why I am a member here and why I am interested in the Second Amendment fight.

I hope you will join me.

Best regards,

Cary

CARY J. HANSEL
JOSEPH, GREENWALD & LAAKE, P.A.
6404 IVY LANE, SUITE 400
GREENBELT, MARYLAND 20770
TELEPHONE: 301-220-2200
FACSIMILE: 301-220-1214

Will you be attending the next MSI meeting? If so, I will most definitely clear out my schedule to attend.

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