ATF list of what constitutes a firearm, the upper or the lower.

Devil Dog · Feb 15, 2014

The other day someone here posted an excellent list of what the ATF considers a firearm. For some weapons it is the upper receiver, for others the lower.

I've done some searches but can't find it. Can someone please repost it for me?

I ask because I read somewhere els3 that on an AR180 the lower is the firearm, but on the auto AR18 it is the upper (which of course makes no sense, but it would not surprise me if true).

Anyway, thanks.

IMBLITZVT · Feb 16, 2014

The registered part on the AR18 and the AR180 is the lower. It gets confused as the upper on the AR18 has a FA part on it. So you see it cut often. However its the lower.

I was looking to get an AR18 a little while ago and was looking for extra uppers. The FNC is the gun that had the registered part switch from the lower to the upper. This is because the FNC registered sear requires the the lower to be modified, so its not a true drop in conversion. This causes issues in the NFA. So they were thinking about confiscating all the sears. The compromise was to make the upper the receiver.

The AR18 design is basically a less expensive version of the AR15. The basic layout of the gun is the same. Also the receiver number is on the lower. So there are several ways to tell the lower is the receiver.

IMBLITZVT · Feb 16, 2014

http://www.atf.gov/files/publications/download/p/atf-p-5320-8/atf-p-5320-8-chapter-2.pdf

P.S. The list you are asking for are is on page 10 of this ATF booklet.

Devil Dog · Feb 16, 2014

Thank you! This was exactly what I was looking for.

So, based on what you are telling me, would one be able to mix and match upppers and lowers on a registered FA AR18 with a SA AR180 (just like one could put any AR15 upper on a registered M16 lower)?

IMBLITZVT · Feb 16, 2014

Well legally, yes. However the AR18 upper has a "tail" like part on it for the FA trigger group. This is probably blocked in the AR180 lower. I have seen people use AR180 uppers on AR18s.

See here:

Which way are you going? AR18 with AR180 upper or the other way around. If you are trying to us an AR18 upper on a AR180... well that upper is worth a ton... I would not do it.

Devil Dog · Feb 16, 2014

Thank you for this excellent education. I WAS planning on using an AR18 lower with an AR180 upper. But that was based on my faulty assumption that it was just like an M16/AR15. Since that is not the case I will probably forget the whole scheme, unless you think there is a feasible, legal work around.

IMBLITZVT · Feb 17, 2014

Devil Dog said:
Thank you for this excellent education. I WAS planning on using an AR18 lower with an AR180 upper. But that was based on my faulty assumption that it was just like an M16/AR15. Since that is not the case I will probably forget the whole scheme, unless you think there is a feasible, legal work around.

I was looking into doing about the exact same thing. Parts are hard to find for the gun. LMO has some but otherwise just a few here and there. Parts kits do come up on GB and some have cut uppers that could be rewelded or made to work with 180 uppers. None real easy. And 180 parts are not everywhere or cheap. Do you already have an AR18? I ended up buying a Sendra M16 exactly so I did not have to deal with these and the magazine issues.

Devil Dog · Feb 17, 2014

No, I don't have one. I was considering buying one and a 180 and modifying the 18 using some of the parts from the 180 while retaining the ability to bring 18 back to its original form if ever I wanted to sell it. But it sounds like that isn't feasible, or at least not worth the hassle.

IMBLITZVT · Feb 17, 2014

Well, depending on how much the AR18 is, it may or may not be worth it. If you are in MD you can't get buy the AR180 anymore. Frankly for a little more you can get a AR15-M16 conversion receiver and you will probably be better off with that.

Devil Dog · Feb 17, 2014

I've got an AR180 on a PO so im covered there. I'd like one anyway. I think it is what the M16 should have been

IMBLITZVT · Feb 17, 2014

Devil Dog said:
I've got an AR180 on a PO so im covered there. I'd like one anyway. I think it is what the M16 should have been

Yes the AR18 is a pretty cool gun. Onlythebestfirearms.com has two AR18s at $11.5K and they have jumped the price $2K in the last year. I like the piston system more too. However remember, you can get a piston upper on a M16. You can just do so much more with a M16, I saved up the extra and just bit the bullet and bought my most expensive gun by almost double...

ATF list of what constitutes a firearm, the upper or the lower.

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