Police Corruption is Connected to Anti Gun Legislation

babalou said:

Yup, that is what they are doing with illegals. just legalize them. :/

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That's a bit of a stretch based on what I said. Illegals shouldn't be in jail either, they should be sent back home.

My point is simple. To many things are a crime, and to many things that used to be civil crimes, are now criminal.

I know

gprimr1 said:

That's a bit of a stretch based on what I said. Illegals shouldn't be in jail either, they should be sent back home.

My point is simple. To many things are a crime, and to many things that used to be civil crimes, are now criminal.

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I was just messing with you. I agree. Makes you wonder if it more revenue generating or because it is easier for them so they do not have to work as hard. Like the stories about cops needing to get their quota.

babalou said:

I was just messing with you. I agree. Makes you wonder if it more revenue generating or because it is easier for them so they do not have to work as hard. Like the stories about cops needing to get their quota.

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It is easier to make everybody a criminal and lock them all up, until there is nobody left in the city. That is the easy way out.

Turning this around would require a nuclear bomb, chasing everybody out of the city via extreme bankruptcy a la Detroit and then rebuilding, or a lot of tough effort that will span a couple of generations.

My wife just told me that one of the professors she knows at the UMD School of Pharmacy is moving out of Canton and moving to Ellicott City. She was sending her kids to private school while living in the city. I'm curious as to why she is leaving the city and whether she will continue to send her kids to private school once she is in Ellicott City.

Mr McCauley, I'm extremely grateful for what you have tried to do for the gun community. I also believe that rank and file LEO are with you. In fact, during the last 2 transfers I did at MSP barracks, the officers doing the paper work actually brought up your name and commented on what BS the laws are.
However I do believe that the mindset of the state Dem politicians will never change no matter what. You could pile reams of paper on their desks showing that in the 40 states that have made CC possible, crime has gone down and they would ignore it. They are minions of the wide eyed anti gun liberals in the country. Public opinion is now at 56% that CCW would be a good thing, nation wide, yet the elected representatives ignore their constituents. In this state O'Malley strong armed anyone leaning the other way. I personally think Dumais is FOS. She led the charge where she could. Vallario is another stooge who does whatever the powers that be say. He's our version of Harry Reid, though much more civil. Zirkin is another tool. I spoke with a friend that is friends with him and he told my friend that he was in favor of CCW up until it came time to bottle it up.
If the GA could sit and watch you testimony and not be swayed I don't know what else can be done except a wholesale house cleaning which will not happen in this state. I look very much forward to leaving someday.
And hell, the GA even killed a passed bill that would have some REAL affect on crime so they don't really give a crap.

cz27jim said:

I think we are fast approaching a tipping point where faith and trust in the police will be permanently destroyed. If 1% (pick your own #) of cops are bad, then the other 99% must do something about it. It can only happen form within. I can't do anything about the 1%. Mayors, Governors, and Legislators can't do anything about the 1% until the 99% wake up and do something about them. The 99% need to report the 1%. They need to investigate the 1%. They need to testify against the 1%. Until that happens, things will only get worse for everyone, including the 99% of good officers.

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There has always been a counter culture, "fight the man" type of thing especially with the young. The rap and gansta culture though goes above and beyond lyrically and graphically (videos) at police. I believe this is one element enforcing your tipping point to permanent hatred of police. Today when police are physically outnumbered, there appears no hesitation to assault them.

Schipperke said:

There has always been a counter culture, "fight the man" type of thing especially with the young. The rap and gansta culture though goes above and beyond lyrically and graphically (videos) at police. I believe this is one element enforcing your tipping point to permanent hatred of police. Today when police are physically outnumbered, there appears no hesitation to assault them.

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That's because judges give "time served" or "suspended sentence" to those that would assault the police.

fabsroman said:

It is easier to make everybody a criminal and lock them all up, until there is nobody left in the city. That is the easy way out.

Turning this around would require a nuclear bomb, chasing everybody out of the city via extreme bankruptcy a la Detroit and then rebuilding, or a lot of tough effort that will span a couple of generations.

My wife just told me that one of the professors she knows at the UMD School of Pharmacy is moving out of Canton and moving to Ellicott City. She was sending her kids to private school while living in the city. I'm curious as to why she is leaving the city and whether she will continue to send her kids to private school once she is in Ellicott City.

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I know quite a few people who have made this move, so lets, see if I can guess: In Ellicott City, most of the public schools are as good as the ones in the city; Less Crime; Much bigger/nicer house; H-Mart!; Patapsco Park (and if you are lucky, your house backs up to it); H-mart!!;

mortgage + taxes in Elliott City <= mortgage + taxes + private school cost in Baltimore.

I'm kidding about the H-Mart. I hear they opened a 4th one.

If you have kids, moving out of the city is a no-brainer.

danb said:

I know quite a few people who have made this move, so lets, see if I can guess: In Ellicott City, most of the public schools are as good as the ones in the city; Less Crime; Much bigger/nicer house; H-Mart!; Patapsco Park (and if you are lucky, your house backs up to it); H-mart!!;

mortgage + taxes in Elliott City <= mortgage + taxes + private school cost in Baltimore.

I'm kidding about the H-Mart. I hear they opened a 4th one.

If you have kids, moving out of the city is a no-brainer.

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Is this the same funny smelling grocery store we have in this part of Maryland?

Maybe the time for city government has passed. Let Baltimore County annex the northwest portion, give Harford the NE, Howard the SW, and Anne Arundel the SE.

Schipperke said:

Is this the same funny smelling grocery store we have in this part of Maryland?

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I dunno what funny smelling means. Maybe you should attach a scratch and sniff jpeg. On second thought, please don't. If you've been to an H-Mart, you'd know it.

Wow , take a break for a cpl days, and ...

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Baltimore crime stats are inflential , to the extent that by themselves they effect the statewide averages.

Baltimore has a disporportinate political influence, beyond its population or financial reality. Partly from inertia left over from 75 years ago.Partly because of the dosporportianate influence of the Balt Delegation to MGA because of the 100% lockstep voting. And partially because the Mayor of B'more is the single highest profile elected oficial.

Baltamore does NOT have media dominance over the state. 2 of the 3 most populous jurisdictions border Wash DC. Likewise Southern Md is within the DC orbit. Down there , Baltimore might as well be in Philadelphia or Newark as far as any intrest in happenings there. AA and HoCo are split depending on geography. Wastern Md is a coin toss , with Garrett being at least as influenced by Pittsburg as Balt or DC.

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Indeed a core of violent recidivists cause very disporportionate portion of overall violent crime. This has been known for quite a while , but surgically targeting them has always proved easier in the abstract than in practice.

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Sometimes crime leads to economic decay. Sometimes economic collasp triggers more crime. I'm inclined to postulate a greater influence to the first , but it is all complex and interrelated , and defies simple universal rules of thumb.

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I think a better terminology is " create a sense of order" rather than "establish rule of law ". But I knew what he meant.

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I understand about the other side instantly glazing over , and it's been a struggle to deal with. But I will for a moment evoke the spirit of our legandary Mopar92 , and have a round of "Let's substitute the Noun".

Imagine telling earlier generations of Civil Rights activists that they shouldn't ever mention equal rights , essential justice , or the Bill of Rights because the people who hate you , don't like having that pointed out to them. It will be so much better to ask nicely for better upholstery in the back of the bus , and a 30min lunch break , and two 10 coffee breaks on the plantation.

Sure , we should ALSO use a variety of arguments pointing out the myrad public policy advantages , but there is no deneigning that your bedrock principles ARE right , and the Bill of Rights matters , all of it.

whistlersmother said:

That's because judges give "time served" or "suspended sentence" to those that would assault the police.

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I think that generalization is a bit unfair. I am sure that there may be some that do that for whatever reason. But I have seen judges who take assaults against law enforcement very seriously.

YMMV

wow all this is a lot for a simple minded retired street police like me to understand. i am a grad of the baltimore city police academy in 1973. then i went to th nw district . ealy 75 after needing more money i lateraled to aa cxounty and never looked back. great folks in the city as well as all depts in the state.
at my level we were too busy doing the job .
all this info well ill have to study on it .
my prayers are for all officers everywhere things are really stupid out there
oh i only did 40 years at the policing gig so im still a babe in the woods at it

See this... http://www.frtommylane.com/stories/family/tv.htm

After reading through this I think one approach may be to use social media feedback pressure to stem the liberal agenda of the TV 'news'. The TV has a way of brainwashing people with its constant barrage of liberal opinions. I think most people only get their information and shape their views based upon TV news. If we can start calling BS on the so-called news and pressure them to report fact and not opinion, it might make a difference. I think Fox news is just a guilty as the other media outlets. Opinion used in place of facts. Let us hold the media accountable to the facts. If we can stop or slow down the 'dumbing down' of the populace and pressure TV to provide facts instead of infotainment maybe we can stop the present death spiral?

Nnztg8r said:

When the standards are lowered for the express reason of qualifying and promoting a more diverse force, things can and will get worse. When leadership, who promotes accountability and professionalism, is retired, removed or painted into a corner, things can and will get worse.

An honestly informed public, a professional police force and a competent/consistent judicial system would go a long way to making Baltimore a much better place to live and work. In turn, Baltimore's improvement MIGHT presage MD's improvement.

Blaming the guns is a classic. Nothing up my sleeves but my arms... We (MDS community) know well what causes persistent crime. We, for the most part, understand the role of weapons (particularly guns) in violent crime. We, largely, are comprised of folks who are reasonably well informed and who are (mostly) pragmatic/rational human beings. We understand the relationships between violent crime, criminals, weapons/guns, the police and the judicial system... We are not the problem. The choir knows the sermon by heart. They (we) hear it all day long.

OTOH, the low info citizen/voters don't know, don't care and don't want to know. They are placated by blowhard liars selling snake oil and made to feel safe by a judicial system and PD that enables the liberal fairy tale to be the "way, the truth and the light.". I cannot see how ANYTHING you might do, as individuals or collectively, will change the nature of the folks who keep electing crooked, immoral and ineffective politicians.

Maryland gets what Maryland wants.

It's as sure as a LAW OF NATURE. Forget it or deny it at your own risk.

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esqappellate said:

I think that is correct as a matter of a chronology. NYPD instituted what is often called "Broken Window Policing" which means, in a nutshell, that they controlled violent crime by controlling disorderly behavior (NYC's infamous window washers at intersections) with aggressive policing, viz., the theory is that "disorder leads to increased fear and withdrawal from residents, which then allows more serious crime to move in because of decreased levels of informal social control." http://cebcp.org/evidence-based-pol...arch-evidence-review/broken-windows-policing/ See especially the link to Do Police Matter? An Analysis of the Impact of New York City’s Police Reforms

As part of that policy, they also instituted a broad policy of conducting borderline unconstitutional Terry stops for weapons in high crime areas and tourist areas (Times Sq). That policy, coupled with mandatory jail time, made carrying weapons a higher risk proposition for perps. That reduced violent crime by bad guys on the street. (They are more likely to keep the illegal guns at home). These Terry stops also created a lot of resentment in the minority communities where it was principally practiced, a sentiment that you see manifested in the major of NYC now, who put a stop to it and otherwise undermined police morale. So there are a complex web of tradeoffs. We will see what happens now.

Just a nit, FWIW. "Rule of law" means that the law applies to sovereign as well as the peons.

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montoya32 said:

I am going to concur that it is 100% politics, for two reasons:

1. The reasons for the high crime rate in Baltimore is a direct result in the deteriorating of the family and deterioration of authority. It all began in the schools and has bubbled over into every aspect of life. This is not restricted to just Baltimore. To address this in an effective manner would be to stigmatize the constituents of nearly every politician in Baltimore City, Montgomery County, PG County and the immediate surrounding areas. When you hand out checks for people to stay home and give them free time to roam the streets and participate in the crime, then you are just feeding into the issues.

2. The liberal left feeds into the city's problems. Look at the current attention given to the protests going on. CNN is largely the only news outlet giving the events a large amount of coverage. No one is saying how disgraceful it is to see young black men on TV cursing the police and stating "We will kill!" to the country. The city politicians are snug and warm in their city positions, receiving bribes, handouts, stealing and sucking the life blood from the city, then the residents want to vote for them to be mayor and governor.

The brainwashing is intensely strong in the city and unless you move out and see otherwise, you know no better.

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esqappellate said:

I think that is correct as a matter of a chronology. NYPD instituted what is often called "Broken Window Policing" which means, in a nutshell, that they controlled violent crime by controlling disorderly behavior (NYC's infamous window washers at intersections) with aggressive policing, viz., the theory is that "disorder leads to increased fear and withdrawal from residents, which then allows more serious crime to move in because of decreased levels of informal social control." http://cebcp.org/evidence-based-pol...arch-evidence-review/broken-windows-policing/ See especially the link to Do Police Matter? An Analysis of the Impact of New York City’s Police Reforms

As part of that policy, they also instituted a broad policy of conducting borderline unconstitutional Terry stops for weapons in high crime areas and tourist areas (Times Sq). That policy, coupled with mandatory jail time, made carrying weapons a higher risk proposition for perps. That reduced violent crime by bad guys on the street. (They are more likely to keep the illegal guns at home). These Terry stops also created a lot of resentment in the minority communities where it was principally practiced, a sentiment that you see manifested in the major of NYC now, who put a stop to it and otherwise undermined police morale. So there are a complex web of tradeoffs. We will see what happens now.

Just a nit, FWIW. "Rule of law" means that the law applies to sovereign as well as the peons.

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I hope you know I never think or imply other wise..

But terry stops were in fact popular in the community and they targeted persons where RS actually existed.. drugs gangs etc..life got better, a lot better

It was in fact Bloomberg that borked it up.. like most simple minded managers he took a decision support tool, comstat activity reports, arrests etc, and made it a performance evaluation tool..

As crime went down so did such activity..clearance rates also went down...because all the known criminals were locked up for longer times a lot of the crime was my unknown actors..thus harder to find..

Mayor cf and his cronies took that good news and made it bad news..thus putting pressure on all non civil service rank, and any who would be promoted..to generate activity or even Cook the books..

While I am no fan of Guliani.. Blomberg was far worse..

Blomberg has no concept of balance and rule of law..

So while Terry stops are promplematic what happened later was beyond the intent.. and would fail as applied regardless..

Of course the need to terry stops was the result of prior administrations lack of enforcement creating a culture of criminal defiance that required extraordinary measures... that they led to abuse is not surprising... but they would never have been needed had the police and the courts not abdicated..

I still do not have a firm opinion on the terry stop issue.. but I know that once things get out of hand..getting them back on track is never easy..