HOW to APPLY for a MARYLAND Carry Permit

Merlin · Apr 16, 2012

One acceptable G&S the MSP approved was for business owners. My question is, how much of a business owners do you have to be? What about people that work for someone or someplace, but also have a side business of some kind. Like a electrician, carpenter, or mechanic that may work 2-4 days on the side for them selves. These people are often claiming their income to the IRS because they are making allot on the side as a small or side business.

Don't they qualify to apply with a good enough G&S as a business owners even if it's not their main job? They are working for them selves and are carrying large sums of money.

JMangle · Apr 16, 2012

Merlin said:
One acceptable G&S the MSP approved was for business owners. My question is, how much of a business owners do you have to be? What about people that work for someone or someplace, but also have a side business of some kind. Like a electrician, carpenter, or mechanic that may work 2-4 days on the side for them selves. These people are often claiming their income to the IRS because they are making allot on the side as a small or side business.

Don't they qualify to apply with a good enough G&S as a business owners even if it's not their main job? They are working for them selves and are carrying large sums of money.

I would bet that MD will only recognize a 'side business' if MD gets some tax revenue off of it.

CypherPunk · Apr 16, 2012

Can anyone confirm or disprove that adding "for self-defense and all lawful purposes" as an answer to question 9a, regardless of previously acceptable justifications, will result in a non denial-denial?

Merlin · Apr 16, 2012

bpowers said:
Can anyone confirm or disprove that adding "for self-defense and all lawful purposes" as an answer to question 9a, regardless of previously acceptable justifications, will result in a non denial-denial?

Thats a very good question. When they sent the app's back and said that they did not have a G&S, did they go into any detail on why self-defense and all lawful purposes is not good enough?

MJD438 · Apr 16, 2012

Merlin said:
Thats a very good question. When they sent the app's back and said that they did not have a G&S, did they go into any detail on why self-defense and all lawful purposes is not good enough?

According to the PERMIT APPLICATION RETURNED thread (thread OP's emphasis, not mine), the letter did not go into very much detail - looks like a one-page, static form letter.

teratos · Apr 16, 2012

Merlin said:
One acceptable G&S the MSP approved was for business owners. My question is, how much of a business owners do you have to be? What about people that work for someone or someplace, but also have a side business of some kind. Like a electrician, carpenter, or mechanic that may work 2-4 days on the side for them selves. These people are often claiming their income to the IRS because they are making allot on the side as a small or side business.

Don't they qualify to apply with a good enough G&S as a business owners even if it's not their main job? They are working for them selves and are carrying large sums of money.

You just have to prove you are dealing with large sums of money. Even then, your restrictions are going to be "to and from the bank". Some people have gotten them based on transporting expensive equipment (musical instruments, photography, even machine guns).

BigCity · Apr 16, 2012

I got home today after being away for 5 days. Found a large envelope in the mail from MSP. They were returning everything to me, including the check, application, photos, etc., because I had not given a Good and Substantial reason and that they did not want to deny me because of the appeal of Legg's ruling at this time.

The letter stated that I could re-apply with a G & S reason or just wait unto the appeal from the appellate court.

However, they did run a criminal check on me since that came in a separate envelope.

So if I wait until the appeal, will I have to pay for and re-submit the electronic fingerprints or do they have them on file already?

Mr H · Apr 16, 2012

bpowers said:
Can anyone confirm or disprove that adding "for self-defense and all lawful purposes" as an answer to question 9a, regardless of previously acceptable justifications, will result in a non denial-denial?

The letters that were sent were specific to the applications received "post-stay", best we can tell. The "pre-stay" apps with the self-defense reason seem to be treated no differently than other apps received in that period.

MJD438 · Apr 16, 2012

BigCity said:
I got home today after being away for 5 days. Found a large envelope in the mail from MSP. They were returning everything to me, including the check, application, photos, etc., because I had not given a Good and Substantial reason and that they did not want to deny me because of the appeal of Legg's ruling at this time.

The letter stated that I could re-apply with a G & S reason or just wait unto the appeal from the appellate court.

However, they did run a criminal check on me since that came in a separate envelope.

So if I wait until the appeal, will I have to pay for and re-submit the electronic fingerprints or do they have them on file already?

I would suggest perusing the first several pages of this thread, which was started by a member in the same shoes as you.

CypherPunk · Apr 16, 2012

BigCity said:
I got home today after being away for 5 days. Found a large envelope in the mail from MSP. They were returning everything to me, including the check, application, photos, etc., because I had not given a Good and Substantial reason and that they did not want to deny me because of the appeal of Legg's ruling at this time.

The letter stated that I could re-apply with a G & S reason or just wait unto the appeal from the appellate court.

However, they did run a criminal check on me since that came in a separate envelope.

So if I wait until the appeal, will I have to pay for and re-submit the electronic fingerprints or do they have them on file already?

If you had your fingerprints processed via livescan, the "criminal background check", as you put it, is a function of the livescan process.

CypherPunk · Apr 16, 2012

teratos said:
You just have to prove you are dealing with large sums of money. Even then, your restrictions are going to be "to and from the bank". Some people have gotten them based on transporting expensive equipment (musical instruments, photography, even machine guns).

What I was saying before... and I think it is important to note this, is that it appears from my experience that IF you apply with G&S (i.e. carrying large sums of money) AND you ADD "for self defense and all lawful purposes" - it appears that your application will be returned unprocessed as mine was.

To me, it appears as if the MSP are not wanting to entertain an unrestricted permit even with G&S that would historically be approved.

Therefore, if you are applying for carry cash, etc. my suggestion would be that you seriously consider omitting "self defense and all lawful purposes".

6pack · Apr 17, 2012

I submitted my CCW permit a couple days after the Woolard decision was announced. I used the 'for self defense and other lawful purposes' wording and did not provide any G&S. I received a call from MSP today asking questions about my references and confirming that my reason for the permit was for 'self defense'. After that the MSP officer schedule an interview with me for next Monday.

I'll let you know what happens.

JMangle · Apr 18, 2012

6pack said:
I submitted my CCW permit a couple days after the Woolard decision was announced. I used the 'for self defense and other lawful purposes' wording and did not provide any G&S. I received a call from MSP today asking questions about my references and confirming that my reason for the permit was for 'self defense'. After that the MSP officer schedule an interview with me for next Monday. I'll let you know what happens.

Oh, I beg to differ -- "self defense and other lawful purposes" is all the G&S you need according to standing federal case-law. Just a matter of waiting until the stays/appeals are overwith.

Anywho, welcome and now join Maryland Shall Issue and Second Amendment Foundation -- they are the ones that brought us this case!

Elliotte · Apr 18, 2012

bpowers said:
If you had your fingerprints processed via livescan, the "criminal background check", as you put it, is a function of the livescan process.

And just to clarify things a little, the livescan process and the background check is not run by the MSP, it is run by a separate group and the results are sent to the MSP and to you. That's why you have to pay the livescan facility separately instead of paying the MSP one big check for everything.

6pack · Apr 23, 2012

I had my interview this morning. It took about 20 minutes and was extremely business-like. The investigator read the questions with the personality of a machine... no, wait, that's insulting to the machine. He was not disrespectful in any way, though. The only disappointing thing was he said he had 80 cases he was investigating and didn't expect to finish mine for 3-4 months. Beyond that he had no idea how long the court process would take (since I was using that as my reason for the permit) and he did not have any idea how the MSP was regarding these permits. i.e. processing them, putting them in a pile until the court case was resolved... The waiting continues...

Merlin · Apr 23, 2012

6pack said:
I had my interview this morning. It took about 20 minutes and was extremely business-like. The investigator read the questions with the personality of a machine... no, wait, that's insulting to the machine. He was not disrespectful in any way, though. The only disappointing thing was he said he had 80 cases he was investigating and didn't expect to finish mine for 3-4 months. Beyond that he had no idea how long the court process would take (since I was using that as my reason for the permit) and he did not have any idea how the MSP was regarding these permits. i.e. processing them, putting them in a pile until the court case was resolved... The waiting continues...

I bet many of these troopers have big old attitudes about doing these investigations. I'm sure they have been dragging some troopers off of the very difficult duty of just driving around in circles looking for new places to sit and talk to other troopers to help with these app's. And they are not liking it one bit.

As well as they are not liking the idea that the state may go shall issues and it will just mean that much more boring work. So some of these troopers will get a kick if they are dash your hopes if they can.

Merlin · Apr 23, 2012

teratos said:
You just have to prove you are dealing with large sums of money. Even then, your restrictions are going to be "to and from the bank". Some people have gotten them based on transporting expensive equipment (musical instruments, photography, even machine guns).

When I do carry large sums of money it is often not to a bank. I often need to have it on my when I go to buy the items I deal with.

PJDiesel · Apr 23, 2012

CypherPunk said:
What I was saying before... and I think it is important to note this, is that it appears from my experience that IF you apply with G&S (i.e. carrying large sums of money) AND you ADD "for self defense and all lawful purposes" - it appears that your application will be returned unprocessed as mine was.

I don't think so. Mine listed ONLY the suggested verbiage, but I also attached dozens of examples of deposits and withdraws, from a few hundred to close to $10k, all cash transactions.

Mine wasn't returned. I'd imagine you are falling into the AFTER 3/31 group.

Merlin · Apr 24, 2012

CypherPunk said:
What I was saying before... and I think it is important to note this, is that it appears from my experience that IF you apply with G&S (i.e. carrying large sums of money) AND you ADD "for self defense and all lawful purposes" - it appears that your application will be returned unprocessed as mine was.

To me, it appears as if the MSP are not wanting to entertain an unrestricted permit even with G&S that would historically be approved.

Therefore, if you are applying for carry cash, etc. my suggestion would be that you seriously consider omitting "self defense and all lawful purposes".

These troopers are most likely being lazy and all they have to do is read the "for self defense and all lawful purposes" line and they just stop reading with a big smile on their face because they have been given permission to send back the app's with that as a reason.

If you happen to also have a G&S that maybe you went into some detail on page 10 they never bother reading your reasons because they at that point stopped reading your app and are to busy sending it back to you.

Biggfoot44 · Apr 24, 2012

The pertinent clue was the mention of each (***) being assigned 80 applications. The next inquiry is into is that for all Troopers , or are their different numbers for Investagators vs Uniformed Troopers.

HOW to APPLY for a MARYLAND Carry Permit

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