Transfering a VZ2008

dev · Aug 27, 2014

I have a very specific scenario for a gun transfer and I want to play it by the book.

I told my Brother-in-Law who lives in WV about the VZ2008 and how I was going to purchase one in the fall. He has taken the initiative without asking me and purchased two of them which he had the intention of gifting me one. I let him know that I really appreciate the gesture but it would not be legal for me to accept it since I live in another state. I also let him know that I don't want a gift from him and would rather buy it because I do not want to complicate our relationship.

1. It is a given that I can own a VZ2008 in MD and it's considered a long gun.

2.It is a given that I cannot have him give me the weapon to possess unless it goes though an FFL.

3. It is a given that I can purchase a non regulated firearm like a long gun from a neighboring bordering state.

So the question is can I purchase the gun from him and perform the transfer at his FFL in WV when the gun arrives?

Or does he have to take possession of the firearm first though his FFL, then we have to go across the border into Maryland and transfer the gun to me to legally own.

Thanks in advance as I could not find an answer for this scenario.

rob-cubed · Aug 27, 2014

If you show up at his FFL in West-By-God-Virginny and fill out the 4473 yourself, you can return to MD with it. You don't need to send it to a MD FFL since it's not a regulated item:

(B2) From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA?

A person may only acquire a firearm within the person's own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee's premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

However, not all out-of-state FFLs are comfortable doing this, even if it's legal, given Maryland's confusing laws.

Who you pay (or whether you pay anyone) is up to you. Gun's paid for by your BIL, all the FFL is doing is the transfer and he will likely be charging a nominal fee for that.

lee2 · Aug 27, 2014

Both of you travel to his FFL, once you're approved then you take possession.

dev · Aug 27, 2014

That's good news.

Thanks.
Some follow up questions.

1. Should I be worried that the FFL may refuse the legal transfer of the firearm to me if he thinks the gun is illegal for me to own in MD and might also deny my BIL the transfer of both guns if it comes to that ?

2. One thing I don't understand.
Can someone purchase a long gun though the internet for someone else and have it sent to the recipients FFL for transfer to them?

So the way I understand it as long as the FFL is involved with the transfer to the person owning it, it doesn't matter who is paying for it, or does it.

lx1x · Aug 27, 2014

dev said:
That's good news. Thanks.
Some follow up questions.

1. Should I be worried that the FFL will may refuse the legal transfer of the firearm to me if he thinks the gun is illegal for me to own in MD and might also deny my BIL the transfer of both guns if it comes to that ?

2. One thing I don't understand.
Can someone purchase a long gun though the internet for someone else and have it sent to the recipients FFL for transfer to them?

So the way I understand it as long as the FFL is involved with the transfer to the person owning it, it doesn't matter who is paying for it, or does it.

the buyer pays for it... still need ffl ro do the final transactions and do paperwork.

thats.the process the anti think is a.loophole which is not in reality.

rob-cubed · Aug 27, 2014

1) There's no reason his FFL wouldn't xfer both guns to him, regardless of whether he'll xfer one to you or not. Just give him a call in advance and ask so it's not a wasted trip. If not, your BIL can drop it off at a MD FFL for paperwork.

2) If it's a gift, it's all good. The law makes no distinction how it was purchased or paid for, only whether it's a straw purchase or not.

dev · Aug 27, 2014

lx1x said:
the buyer pays for it... still need ffl ro do the final transactions and do paperwork.

thats.the process the anti think is a.loophole which is not in reality.

I too don't see how that's a loophole when you are not be a prohibited person. So except for in state gun purchases there are universal background checks federally mandated.

lx1x · Aug 27, 2014

dev said:
I too don't see how that's a loophole when you are not be a prohibited person. So except from in state gun purchases there are universal background checks federally mandated.

tell that to an anti.. their head will blow..

dev · Aug 27, 2014

rob-cubed said:
1) There's no reason his FFL wouldn't xfer both guns to him, regardless of whether he'll xfer one to you or not. Just give him a call in advance and ask so it's not a wasted trip. If not, your BIL can drop it off at a MD FFL for paperwork.

2) If it's a gift, it's all good. The law makes no distinction how it was purchased or paid for, only whether it's a straw purchase or not.

Thanks. So the clear definition of a straw purchase is one where the FFL transfer has gone though by the applicant for the background check and then it is given to someone else.
I take it, that it means given to someone else prohibited or not unless if it was loaned to someone who is not prohibited for temporary use for sporting purposes.

lx1x · Aug 27, 2014

dev said:
Thanks. So the clear definition of a straw purchase is one where the FFL transfer has gone though by the applicant for the background check and then it is given to someone else.
I take it, that it means given to someone else prohibited or not.

yeppers

but there was a case recently where a cop bought a gun to get leo discount..sold it to a family (via ffl) and get busted for straw purchase law.

Pinecone · Aug 27, 2014

It is a straw purchase if the actual recipient of the firearm is unable or UNWILLING to fill out the paperwork and take possession directly.

You MAY purchase a firearm, and give it to someone. If they pay you for it, especially before the purchase or with the understand that you will pay them for getting it for you, it IS a straw purchase.

The pay, but sent to another person for transfer by FFL should be fine. The actual recipient is filling out the paperwork. Same thing is you pay him for it BEFORE the FFL transfers it.

The other thing that could be done, is to have him bring it to a friendly MD FFL for transfer to you. Can occur in either state. And some IPs understand that it is not banned here.

dev · Aug 27, 2014

Pinecone said:
It is a straw purchase if the actual recipient of the firearm is unable or UNWILLING to fill out the paperwork and take possession directly.

You MAY purchase a firearm, and give it to someone. If they pay you for it, especially before the purchase or with the understand that you will pay them for getting it for you, it IS a straw purchase.

The pay, but sent to another person for transfer by FFL should be fine. The actual recipient is filling out the paperwork. Same thing is you pay him for it BEFORE the FFL transfers it.

The other thing that could be done, is to have him bring it to a friendly MD FFL for transfer to you. Can occur in either state. And some IPs understand that it is not banned here.

To be clear. If my BIL had a long gun that he has owned for a good while and he decided to gift it or sell it to me we can go to his FFL in WV and perform the transfer? (the exception with being a border state)
I though you could only transfer between parties in the recipients state.

dev · Aug 27, 2014

lx1x said:
yeppers

but there was a case recently where a cop bought a gun to get leo discount..sold it to a family (via ffl) and get busted for straw purchase law.

The thing that really threw me off is the temporary borrowing of a gun.
I thought you can loan someone a gun temporarily for a sporting purpose.
Upon further research I found out that it only applies if both parties reside in the same state.

Correctly me if I'm wrong but it would seem that you cannot be in possession of someone else's guns if they are reside out of the state.
My BIL forgot his 1911 at my house a few years ago and he picked it up a month later. So does that mean I committed a felony.

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