Torn between 2 Arsenal AKs, SGL31-95 vs SAM7R-61

Scott7891 said:

I stated so in another thread but I'll repost it here:


The O-PAP doesn't have a chrome-lined bore (or any melinite/nitriding for that matter) meaning anything else but brass ammo you are wearing away the barrel at a much faster rate especially since all steel-cased ammo since 1994 use bimetallic projectiles.

The M10 has had its fair share of lemons and is essentially a WASR with a Draco FSB/ Gas combo.

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I agree with you, and given the ban you have a better chance with arsenal. However I have had and personally examined many sgl's and slr's with canted barrel component. I have determined that the eastern Europeans will never attain western QC standards. I know canted ar15 fsb's exist but I have never seen one. None of this matters if you have tools to fix these minor issues, it just bugs me. AK's are so much fun to shoot , op should buy both

Scott7891 said:

I stated so in another thread but I'll repost it here:


The O-PAP doesn't have a chrome-lined bore (or any melinite/nitriding for that matter) meaning anything else but brass ammo you are wearing away the barrel at a much faster rate especially since all steel-cased ammo since 1994 use bimetallic projectiles.

The M10 has had its fair share of lemons and is essentially a WASR with a Draco FSB/ Gas combo.

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Yes, so maybe the barrel wears slightly more. So add $50. However, I actually wanted a non-chromed barrel in this instance.

And yes, maybe someone will get a lemon. I didn't, but I'm sure there are lemons of all brands out there. I realize that there is upgraded part spec here and there.

So I guess what I'm asking is - do they actually perform any better at the range? I'm guessing that they must, but I haven't seen any evidence of this. Any of them MOA out of the box?

aquaman said:

I agree with you, and given the ban you have a better chance with arsenal. However I have had and personally examined many sgl's and slr's with canted barrel component. I have determined that the eastern Europeans will never attain western QC standards. I know canted ar15 fsb's exist but I have never seen one. None of this matters if you have tools to fix these minor issues, it just bugs me. AK's are so much fun to shoot , op should buy both

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True.

However you would think American AK "assemblers" would also want to exert high degrees of QC and make them better than the originals but I have yet to see a domestic company do that.

Scott7891 said:

True.

However you would think American AK "assemblers" would also want to exert high degrees of QC and make them better than the originals but I have yet to see a domestic company do that.

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They won't bother , I checked out two of those waffen works at the Chantilly show. Nice build and worth it for 600-50 at classic. However whoever made the us barrel cut the handguard retainer to high on the barrel so the lower hg won't even go into the receiver all the way. There is an obvious 3/8" gap you can tell where the original receiver butted up the the hg. Whoever made the barrels needs new blueprints......

I agree, in many ways every cheap AK I've owned is just as serviceable as an expensive one. Dependability is usually a given. Accuracy can be better or worse by model but still varies somewhat. I had a WASR that would do 3 MOA... while a friends WASR was barely on paper. What I've found is "nicer" AKs are generally more consistent between rifles in terms of build quality and accuracy. No guarantees... but I've never felt cheated with an Arsenal or pre-ban.

snallygaster said:

Meh, how many folks shoot (or plan to shoot) their AK's past 100M or so? I sure don't. There are too many other rifles out there that fit that role. All of my sub $800 Ak's are usefully accurate and reliable out to 100M.

Understanding that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, what do the Arsenals bring to the table to justify the significant $$$ increase? I mean, for less than the price of an Arsenal, I bought an O-PAP AND an M-10. I'm certainly not against paying more for an AK that is "better" - in fact, I've always wanted a high-end AK, but I haven't bought one because I don't understand what additional benefit I'm getting for my $$$. Someone please fill me in, because otherwise I'm spending my last pre-ban dollars on a non AK platform rifle.

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snallygaster said:

So I guess what I'm asking is - do they actually perform any better at the range? I'm guessing that they must, but I haven't seen any evidence of this. Any of them MOA out of the box?

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Generally yes. They give you a test target showing how well your rifle performed when they tested it.

Also Arsenals are clones of current military issue AK's. They are therefore updated to modern standards. For instance the improved 24x1 threads on the SGL series helps to improve accuracy since they are not directly on the bore anymore. The type of muzzle brake used is vastly superior to the standard slant brake improving accuracy and felt recoil. The Russians put a lot of time in developing the muzzle brake.

They also added an extra rivet by the ejector to further improve bolt rotation thus improving reliability even more.

The PAP is 70's technology using wood and heavier components. Not to say it doesn't look nice or work but it is still dated compared to modern AK's. Also the Yugo is mostly proprietary meaning you have to buy specific Yugo parts.

-The SGL's 7.62 only proprietary part is the bolt body and extractor.
- The 5.45 version is compatible with all AK-74's minus the Tantal.
- The SLR-107 is compatible with all AKM components minus the folding buttstock.
- The milled Arsenals are compatible with AK-47 components.