Loaded Magazine Law

MightyWarMonger · May 18, 2010

rsideout said:
Don't go to Continental to shoot with loaded mags in your bag. They made me unload all of mine 3 weeks ago. The guy behind the counter was adamant that it was illegal to have them loaded in the bag unless I had a Maryland CCP. I mentioned the AG's position on this but it did not matter. I unloaded 20+ mags and then had to reload them once I was on the range.

Would have just left and not returned I almost always have loaded mags when I'm going to shoot (can't recall ever not having them) I wouldn't unload them nope there would have ben a breif argument with me on the way out the door.

Maverick0313 · May 18, 2010

Mark392001 said:
Join AGC, no one looks at any of your equipment there and the RSO's are friendly. Many options for the handgunner. I'm thrilled I gave up on those indoor ranges that want to handle and check my firearms.

+1.....I am in AGC and you are dead on. :thumbsup:

dwhaley · May 18, 2010

Just play it safe and leave 'em empty....ammo in separate compartment.

Wagon? SUV? I just leave ammo in the middle and guns in the rear.

Not sure if that is in compliance with the actual law, but I can't see LEO really having an issue with it. No loaded mags, fo' sho.

(+1 postcount....ugh)

Boondock Saint · May 18, 2010

dwhaley said:
Just play it safe and leave 'em empty....ammo in separate compartment.

Wagon? SUV? I just leave ammo in the middle and guns in the rear.

Not sure if that is in compliance with the actual law, but I can't see LEO really having an issue with it. No loaded mags, fo' sho.

(+1 postcount....ugh)

Overkill. Check the AG letter at the beginning of the thread if you haven't already done so.

jehu · May 18, 2010

A couple things are problematic about the AG letter IMO! In the 2nd paragragh he states "Maryland law does not prohibit an individual from transporting a loaded magazine in a vehicle while transporting an unloaded handgun under the provisions of 4-203(b)". While in the 3rd para. he states that its not an official opinion of the AG. Well is it a fact in law or is it an opinion? Also if the loaded mag and the firearm are within reach but the mag is not inserted in the gun, which is in violation of 4-203b as I read it, does that constitute a loaded firearm in the eyes of the law? It is these vague grey areas and the inability of the so called authorities to define them clearly that fries my ass!! :mad54:

swinokur · May 18, 2010

jehu said:
A couple things are problematic about the AG letter IMO! In the 2nd paragragh he states "Maryland law does not prohibit an individual from transporting a loaded magazine in a vehicle while transporting an unloaded handgun under the provisions of 4-203(b)". While in the 3rd para. he states that its not an official opinion of the AG. Well is it a fact in law or is it an opinion? Also if the loaded mag and the firearm are within reach but the mag is not inserted in the gun, which is in violation of 4-203b as I read it, does that constitute a loaded firearm in the eyes of the law? It is these vague grey areas and the inability of the so called authorities to define them clearly that fries my ass!!

4-203 makes no mention of "in reach" AFAIK. it states in an enclosed case or holster, and even wearing it is legal if not loaded and engaged in one of the approved activities. . the Federal FOPA title 88 SS 926 states locked in trunk or in a locked container if no trunk.

I don't know what weight an AG opinion carries in a court of law and I don't know if it is binding on prosecutors either.

mbz300sdl · May 18, 2010

Mdeng said:
Thank you for the letter. I have made a copy for myself and one to post in a location I know LEO's frequent.

Dunkin Doughnuts?

K-Romulus · May 18, 2010

swinokur said:
4-203 makes no mention of "in reach" AFAIK. it states in an enclosed case or holster, and even wearing it is legal if not loaded and engaged in one of the approved activities. . the Federal FOPA title 88 SS 926 states locked in trunk or in a locked container if no trunk.

I don't know what weight an AG opinion carries in a court of law and I don't know if it is binding on prosecutors either.

An "official" AG Opinion has "some" weight with the courts. But the courts routinely defer to whatever the state supreme court (in MD the Court of Appeals) has to say on the issue. Lower courts will make up their own minds on an issue if the supreme court hasn't said anything, taking the AG opinion as one argument to consider with more weight than ,say, some guy preaching on the corner. :rolleyes:

The key word is "official," meaning that the AG himself is putting it out as his opinion on a matter. We looked at the difference between this letter and the "AG Opinion" on Baltimore's illegal gun control laws. Pretty significant difference.
http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?p=512923&highlight=stolen#post512923

As for local prosecutors, the AG is supposed to be the chief law enforcement officer for the state, so he/she sets the statewide policy. But I am not sure about how that policy is enforced if say, a pro-freedom prosecutor refuses to toe the line on some point.

jonnyl · May 18, 2010

I get that the term "Official Opinion" probably has a lot more to it. However, in this case it doesn't seem to be an interpretation issue. (like if he wrote an unofficial opinion that you can stop at the gas station on the way home from the range).

This letter has a statement of fact. "Maryland law does not prohibit an individual from transporting a loaded magazine...."

Seems black and white to me, even though they put in the "disclaimer" at the bottom.

Maybe some of the lawyers on the board can chime in.

MrWhiteRabbit · May 18, 2010

How to Create a Long Thread on MDshooters

1) Come up with a question
2) Ask that responders stick to the topic at hand and not get into personal opinions or armchair lawyering.
3) Post the question.
4) Thank Boondock Saint for his quick, concise, and informative response.
5) Roll eyes and facepalm for the next week as people continue to get fired up over the same topic without reading or adhering to the OP's request to avoid opinions and armchair lawyering.
6) Remind readers that there is a "New Thread" button if they want to voice their own damn opinions.

Thanks again, Boondock. You're my hero. Twice.

Boondock Saint · May 18, 2010

Darkemp · May 18, 2010

Maverick0313 said:
+1.....I am in AGC and you are dead on.

And also too with respect to the "club" ranges you aren't surrounded by the
general "public" who either don't understand or care about proper firearm safety. Anyone else ever seen the "renters" at the range who think it's more about posing than actually working on their skills? I feel much more comfortable at a private range than the public ones where anyone walks in.

smokey · Jun 2, 2010

swinokur said:
4-203 makes no mention of "in reach" AFAIK. it states in an enclosed case or holster, and even wearing it is legal if not loaded and engaged in one of the approved activities. . the Federal FOPA title 88 SS 926 states locked in trunk or in a locked container if no trunk.

I don't know what weight an AG opinion carries in a court of law and I don't know if it is binding on prosecutors either.

so if i'm reading this right, i can have an enclosed holster with an empty gun in it on my hip as i walk "back from the shooting range" with some loaded mags in a mag holder on my weak side belt?

Redcobra · Jun 2, 2010

Bikebreath said:
I got the lecture, seen it given to others. Still, I like Continental. Maybe I'm not as sensitive and don't let my feelings get hurt as easy. Maybe it's cause I'm a bit grumpy myself and I understand those types better than you. I'm just glad you guys are freeing up those lanes for when I wanna go shoot...Thanks!

+1

Maryland Hunter · Jun 2, 2010

smokey0118 said:
so if i'm reading this right, i can have an enclosed holster with an empty gun in it on my hip as i walk "back from the shooting range" with some loaded mags in a mag holder on my weak side belt?

Yes, if you can meet their definition of what an "enclosed" holster is. Walk, ride, it doesn't matter. Probably not a good idea, though.

MH

Abacab · Jun 3, 2010

Maryland Hunter said:
Yes, if you can meet their definition of what an "enclosed" holster is. Walk, ride, it doesn't matter. Probably not a good idea, though.

MH

Pretty much. I am not sure why anyone wants to run the risk of running into the wrong Johnny Law and getting themselves in trouble. Also, the time it takes to put the thing on, take the thing off, load, unload, etc. renders it further pointless.

Markp · Jun 3, 2010

Maryland Hunter said:
Yes, if you can meet their definition of what an "enclosed" holster is. Walk, ride, it doesn't matter. Probably not a good idea, though.

MH

Probably not a good idea? Since when is OBEYING the law NOT a good idea? If you think that obeying the law will result in Nanny State California Legislative like action, what's the point... you've already lost if you are afraid that obeying the law will result in adverse consequences.

:facepalm:

Ethan83 · Jun 3, 2010

Markp said:
Probably not a good idea? Since when is OBEYING the law NOT a good idea? If you think that obeying the law will result in Nanny State California Legislative like action, what's the point... you've already lost if you are afraid that obeying the law will result in adverse consequences.

...Because we all know that eventually, anybody engaging in that behavior is going to have spend a lot of money and sweat on proving that in a court of law, after inevitably getting arrested. Just because you're right doesn't mean an LEO can't or won't ruin your day, even if only because they don't understand the laws properly.

If I was wealthy I might line up a great lawyer and make myself a test case. Unfortunately, I'm not.

Oldcarjunkie · Jun 3, 2010

Boondock Saint said:
Here's the AG's opinion on loaded mags:

Save and print for glove box. :thumbsup:

strube · Jun 4, 2010

Maryland Hunter said:
Yes, if you can meet their definition of what an "enclosed" holster is. Walk, ride, it doesn't matter. Probably not a good idea, though.

MH

Could you not technically then conceal it as well?

You wouldn't even need to be going to the range if its just the transportation law. You can be going to a gun store or smith or even merely showing the piece to someone if you are a collector. I believe transporting between homes and even home and work is covered under the transport law as well.

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