M4 vs. M16A4
- Thread starter fivepointstar
- Start date
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Marines use the M16A4 for it's easier to use long sight radius, increased effective range, and increased lethality, plus their mission is different and they prefer to engage people farther away.
Fun fact. In Fallujah the USMC was under investigation for the prevalence of headshots that some in the US Gov. thought was indicative of executions. End result was that they concluded the terrorists were hiding with only heads peeking out and the combo of M16A4 and ACOG made it easy.
Fun fact. In Fallujah the USMC was under investigation for the prevalence of headshots that some in the US Gov. thought was indicative of executions. End result was that they concluded the terrorists were hiding with only heads peeking out and the combo of M16A4 and ACOG made it easy.
TOWcritter
Self Sufficent Sovereign
Who you calling a Marie son!??
When the Marines teach someone to shoot, they hit what they aim at. Period.
They do indeed issue both to Marines. Your job dictates what you're issued.
Every Marine is a rifleman...just sometimes they use a different rifle than the Marine beide them.
They do indeed issue both to Marines. Your job dictates what you're issued.
Every Marine is a rifleman...just sometimes they use a different rifle than the Marine beide them.
- Aug 17, 2011
- 26,177
fivepointstar
Thank you MD-Goodbye
Crap....sorry I fixed that
ken792
Ultimate Member
Marines do issue the M4 as well for those who need a more compact rifle. My Marine Corps friends who are armor or aircrew say that they get M4's.
fivepointstar
Thank you MD-Goodbye
Great info....keep it coming
ohen cepel
Ultimate Member
The Marines didn't like the short M4 as mentioned and I don't think it met some of their specs for mean time between failures.
I had an M4 and there were many times I would have preferred an M16M4. Those few inches of barrel makes a difference at times.
I had an M4 and there were many times I would have preferred an M16M4. Those few inches of barrel makes a difference at times.
Fox123
Ultimate Member
rob-cubed
In need of moderation
Sight radius makes a difference in practical accuray when using irons. A few inches of extra barrel is a real advantage at a long range. With ACOGs the advantage of sight radius goes away, but the extra barrel length still adds a bit of terminal velocity.
echo6mike
Ultimate Member
I'll leave the ball-busting to others 
and I was an M16A2-era jarhead, but what I understand is this:
USMC basic training (and SOI, I think?) still focuses on the idea that every Marine is a rifleman. That means precision engagement of targets (enemy) out to the maximum effective range of their basic weapon, the M16. Since the Corps wants us to be able to effectively hit out to 500, 600 yards and maybe beyond, starting everyone off with the longer barrel (sight radius back in my old codger iron sights days!) of the full-length M16A4 is better. Long range marksmanship is still a Marine Corps fundamental.
The Army, AFAIK, concentrates more on battlesight zero/hit or miss training, using pop up targets compared to the paper targets on the USMC known distance course. Hit the target or don't vs. bullseye training. That makes starting with the weapon that most soldiers will carry (I think this, anyway - recent vets please correct!) more practical. Army doctrine doesn't plan on having infantry engage the enemy at crazy long distances - that's what arty and CAS are for.
Then, whichever branch you're in, when you get out to your MOS assignment, you'll end up using whichever weapon is more appropriate. It's all good. Not everybody can be Alvin York or Carlos Hathcock, right?
S/F!
<CALayer: 0x17154300>
and I was an M16A2-era jarhead, but what I understand is this:USMC basic training (and SOI, I think?) still focuses on the idea that every Marine is a rifleman. That means precision engagement of targets (enemy) out to the maximum effective range of their basic weapon, the M16. Since the Corps wants us to be able to effectively hit out to 500, 600 yards and maybe beyond, starting everyone off with the longer barrel (sight radius back in my old codger iron sights days!) of the full-length M16A4 is better. Long range marksmanship is still a Marine Corps fundamental.
The Army, AFAIK, concentrates more on battlesight zero/hit or miss training, using pop up targets compared to the paper targets on the USMC known distance course. Hit the target or don't vs. bullseye training. That makes starting with the weapon that most soldiers will carry (I think this, anyway - recent vets please correct!) more practical. Army doctrine doesn't plan on having infantry engage the enemy at crazy long distances - that's what arty and CAS are for.
Then, whichever branch you're in, when you get out to your MOS assignment, you'll end up using whichever weapon is more appropriate. It's all good. Not everybody can be Alvin York or Carlos Hathcock, right?
S/F!
<CALayer: 0x17154300>
Vile Shadow
...
- Feb 28, 2013
- 28,953
Great. This is just what the Marines need while on the battle field trying to defend themselves from those trying to kill them. Watch where you hit 'em, or some civilian gooberment ***** might get offended and wanna "investigate".
- Feb 4, 2013
- 28,175
What echo6mike said.
First rifle issued to me was m16a1, then later the newer incarnations.
A rifle is just a tool, the weapon is the mind of the operator.
When I retired, the Army was still qualifying up to 300 meters, with familiaration fire out to 600m. At these longer distances, you would be much better served with a different tool. Hence the birth and popularity of the "designated marksman" (vice sniper). Long live 7.62x51mm.
I was not infantry, but served with and call many of them friends over the years; I'll pay a little tribute here:
First rifle issued to me was m16a1, then later the newer incarnations.
A rifle is just a tool, the weapon is the mind of the operator.
When I retired, the Army was still qualifying up to 300 meters, with familiaration fire out to 600m. At these longer distances, you would be much better served with a different tool. Hence the birth and popularity of the "designated marksman" (vice sniper). Long live 7.62x51mm.
I was not infantry, but served with and call many of them friends over the years; I'll pay a little tribute here:
shocker998md
Ultimate Member
Im glad a few guys already brought it up. Please, NEVER call a Marine a soldier. We are Marines.
Back on topic, it depends on your job and rank. For my last deployment to Afghanistan I was issued an M16A4 and then got thrown into a role for a few months were I wish I had an M4. Getting in and out of Humvees and MRAPS suck with the larger rifle.
In the wing if you are an E5 or below you get issued an A4 unless your one of the 5'0 females that need an M4 because of size. E6 and above will get issued M4s and a pistol. Now every job is different, air crew will get different stuff and this is all from an airwing perspective. On the ground side stuff will be completely different.
I did notice that everyone that I worked with in Afghanistan from the 101st all had M4s with aimpoints on them.
Back on topic, it depends on your job and rank. For my last deployment to Afghanistan I was issued an M16A4 and then got thrown into a role for a few months were I wish I had an M4. Getting in and out of Humvees and MRAPS suck with the larger rifle.
In the wing if you are an E5 or below you get issued an A4 unless your one of the 5'0 females that need an M4 because of size. E6 and above will get issued M4s and a pistol. Now every job is different, air crew will get different stuff and this is all from an airwing perspective. On the ground side stuff will be completely different.
I did notice that everyone that I worked with in Afghanistan from the 101st all had M4s with aimpoints on them.
clarksvegas
Active Member
I think the 101st has been using the M4 for a fairly long time. I'd hazard to say around 1998. My dad was 101st and got out in 1996 and the MPs were carrying them around just before I left for USAF in 1998.
I can't defend the USAF much since it was a simpler time. We did have some basic range time to be aware of the M16. Since I didn't get sent to a hazard location or get a combat oriented MOS (unless you count Maryland as a combat zone). that was in 1998.
I heard from folks that went into basic a few months after I did were getting more combat training.
At least it wasn't as bad as the Navy of the same time. They trained with light gun replicas.
Fox123
Ultimate Member
Try climbing out the back of LAV 25 quick fast and in a hurry. Even for a little guy those doors are tiny with all your gear on and a patrol pack.
ericoak
don't drop Aboma on me
The Army uses 30 mm cannons. 
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