Stand Your Ground inapplicable to the Zimmerman/Martin case

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    Maestro Pistolero

    Active Member
    Mar 20, 2012
    876
    The evidence seems to support that Zimmerman verbally confronted Martin (leaving aside for the moment whether that was a good idea) to ask what him he was doing (not illegal) and then Martin attacked him, successfully rendering him helpless and at risk of going unconscious from the head banging.

    The only injury to Martin, according to the funeral director was the gunshot. Zimmerman, on the other hand, had at least two injuries according to the police report.

    So, if all of that is accurate, Zimmerman wouldn't even need to raise a Stand Your Ground defense, as simple self defense would suffice. Therefore the SYG law is inapplicable and shouldn't even be subject to review due to this case.
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 22, 2009
    59,775
    Bel Air
    Stand Your Ground inapplicable to the Zimmerman/Martin case


    Sez who??.. Link?

    I think he is saying this is self defense, so you wouldn't have to even look at the "stand your ground" law.
     

    Zaicran

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 26, 2010
    910
    Morganza, MD
    I think he is saying this is self defense, so you wouldn't have to even look at the "stand your ground" law.

    Careful there...you can't answer simple assault with deadly force...you're opening another can of worms...

    Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
     

    Maestro Pistolero

    Active Member
    Mar 20, 2012
    876
    Forgetting the case at hand for the moment, if one is being beaten to the point of losing the ability to defend oneself, and the attack is not letting up, the disparity of force shifts.

    A person in such a circumstance may well be justified in using lethal force, as he may reasonably believe himself to be in danger of losing life or limb. Disparity of force does not only mean a victim is outnumbered or outweighed, or that the attacker has a weapon. It can be due to the facts, in the moment, during the altercation.
     

    Bigdtc

    Ultimate Member
    BANNED!!!
    Dec 6, 2007
    6,673
    South Carolina
    I think he is saying this is self defense, so you wouldn't have to even look at the "stand your ground" law.


    O.K... I see.. That makes sense. Thanks...

    Forgetting the case at hand for the moment, if one is being beaten to the point of losing the ability to defend oneself, and the attack is not letting up, the disparity of force shifts.

    A person in such a circumstance may well be justified in using lethal force, as he may reasonably believe himself to be in danger of losing life or limb. Disparity of force does not only mean a victim is outnumbered or outweighed, or that the attacker has a weapon. It can be due to the facts, in the moment, during the altercation.

    :thumbsup:
     

    WeaponsCollector

    EXTREME GUN OWNER
    Mar 30, 2009
    12,120
    Southern MD
    But this is the best chance ever to destroy those evil "stand your ground" laws!
    People should never be able to defend themselves from homicidal maniacs who are only misunderstood by society and probably had horrible childhoods. Nobody should ever shoot violent criminals who are attacking you, simply do whatever they tell you to do then offer them a hug and a cold beer then everything will be fine.:beer:
    Plus, don't you know unarmed people are harmless? Nobody can ever choke someone or beat them to death with their bare hands. :sarcasm:
     
    Jun 30, 2010
    1,172
    Churchton
    Forgetting the case at hand for the moment, if one is being beaten to the point of losing the ability to defend oneself, and the attack is not letting up, the disparity of force shifts.

    A person in such a circumstance may well be justified in using lethal force, as he may reasonably believe himself to be in danger of losing life or limb. Disparity of force does not only mean a victim is outnumbered or outweighed, or that the attacker has a weapon. It can be due to the facts, in the moment, during the altercation.

    This. Define "simple assault"...the fact that Zimmerman was screaming for help and it never deterred Martin from stopping his attack is enough reason for him to be concerned for his life. A simple assault would be more like one punch and he walks away.

    I know if I was armed and being beaten by someone I didn't know, and I couldn't get away, I'd have done the same thing.

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
     

    Zaicran

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 26, 2010
    910
    Morganza, MD
    Forgetting the case at hand for the moment, if one is being beaten to the point of losing the ability to defend oneself, and the attack is not letting up, the disparity of force shifts.

    A person in such a circumstance may well be justified in using lethal force, as he may reasonably believe himself to be in danger of losing life or limb. Disparity of force does not only mean a victim is outnumbered or outweighed, or that the attacker has a weapon. It can be due to the facts, in the moment, during the altercation.


    Stand your ground is specifically so you *CAN* use Self Defense...and protects those who do defend themselves...of course stand your ground should be used here.
     

    alucard0822

    For great Justice
    Oct 29, 2007
    17,643
    PA
    It probably would be still applicable as it compliments their self-defense statues, it prevents criminal or civil action aggainst someone who uses deadly force when they belive(reasonable man test) that that force is needed to prevent death, serious injury, or a forcible felony. The latest accounts, where Martin initiated what FL statutes would consider an aggrivated assault and/or battery(felony) and had Zimmerman on his back slamming his head into the ground would seem to meet that standard. Fl assault/battery statutes have a low standard to go from misdemeanor A&B to felony aggrivated A&B, a deadly weapon, a blanket "intent to do great bodily harm", permanent disfigurement, intent to cause permanent disability, intent to commit another felony or even misdememenor battery on a pregnant female all classify as felony assault. Most castle doctrine laws simply add protections or clarify existing laws, in Florida's case it removes a "duty to retreat" when a person is in a location they are legally allowed, legally presumes someone forcibly entering a location illegally is there to commit a felony, so deadly force is a legal option, and it prevents criminal or civil charges if a person is found to have used deadly force in compliance with the law. If someone uses deadly force while committing their own felony, aggainst police, or a few other circumstances, then the castle doctrine is not applicable. There are some cases where potentially someone could sucessfully claim self defense as a defense from manslaughter, but not meet the slightly higher standards for castle doctrine protection, but the Zimmerman case doesn't seem to be one of them.
     

    Gaius Baltar

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Mar 7, 2010
    2,005
    lets see what "the experts" say about this case. there are mulitple versions, and i look forward to see what the grand jury has to say about everything.
     

    john_bud

    Ultimate Member
    Sep 23, 2009
    2,045
    Forgetting the case at hand for the moment, if one is being beaten to the point of losing the ability to defend oneself, and the attack is not letting up, the disparity of force shifts.

    A person in such a circumstance may well be justified in using lethal force, as he may reasonably believe himself to be in danger of losing life or limb. Disparity of force does not only mean a victim is outnumbered or outweighed, or that the attacker has a weapon. It can be due to the facts, in the moment, during the altercation.


    Unless you are white and the attacker is a 17 year old dope selling gang member with a grill full of gold teeth wearing a hoody.
     

    Chrscott22

    Member
    Apr 6, 2012
    27
    WARPIG [USMC];1596187 said:
    This. Define "simple assault"...the fact that Zimmerman was screaming for help and it never deterred Martin from stopping his attack is enough reason for him to be concerned for his life. A simple assault would be more like one punch and he walks away.


    The *fact*??? You might want to bring yourself up to date on the case before you go claiming *facts*. It was reported days ago that experts determined that it wasn't Zimmerman screaming for help it was Martin. That kind of throws off your whole speculation. This is why we need to let the police and legal system do their job instead of speculating and coming to our own conclusions.

    http://video.msnbc.msn.com/the-last-word/46934308/#46934308

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/04/0...-not-trayvon-martin-shooter-george-zimmerman/

    http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...l-screams-not-george-zimmermans-2-experts-say

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...-george-zimmerman-forensic-voice-experts-say/
     

    haoleboy

    1/2 Banned
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 17, 2005
    4,085
    Dentsville
    The *fact*??? You might want to bring yourself up to date on the case before you go claiming *facts*. It was reported days ago that experts determined that it wasn't Zimmerman screaming for help it was Martin. That kind of throws off your whole speculation. This is why we need to let the police and legal system do their job instead of speculating and coming to our own conclusions.

    http://video.msnbc.msn.com/the-last-word/46934308/#46934308

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/04/0...-not-trayvon-martin-shooter-george-zimmerman/

    http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...l-screams-not-george-zimmermans-2-experts-say

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...-george-zimmerman-forensic-voice-experts-say/
    Where did these "experts" come from and who are they working for? The Police or Martin's family?
     

    Chrscott22

    Member
    Apr 6, 2012
    27
    Where did these "experts" come from and who are they working for? The Police or Martin's family?

    All of this information is in the articles but.....

    Both were hired by the Orlando Sentinel

    Tom Owen, a court-qualified expert witness, is an authority on biometric voice analysis.

    Ed Primeau, a Michigan-based audio engineer and forensics expert
     

    foxtrapper

    Ultimate Member
    Sep 11, 2007
    4,533
    Havre de Grace
    Can those 2 "experts" deduce a difference between a screaming bobcat and an african grey parrot perfectly mimicing a screaming bobcat?

    A man in distress could sound like a bobcat or an african grey parrot mimicing a bobcat for all it matters.
     

    Maestro Pistolero

    Active Member
    Mar 20, 2012
    876
    It's entirely likely, and would be unsurprising if the screaming voice was in fact Martin after being shot. But that alone would prove nothing about how and why he was shot.
     
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