PMP Certification - Project-Management-Professional-PMP

Reptile · May 20, 2015

MikeTF said:
I'm glad you said that. I would place more emphasis on gaining project management experience, than getting a certification.

A major part of the certification process is having and documenting substantial experience. It's not just passing a difficult certification exam after a week long boot camp like some certs are. Look at the certification criteria.

TheBert · May 20, 2015

Back when I went thru the training you needed 4500 hours as a pm if you had a college degree and 7500 hours as a pm if you didn't have a degree.

bkuether · May 20, 2015

PMP is an awesome certification if you can get it. It means that any company can hand you a project (within reason of course) and they can be confident you will complete it.

It is a barn burner from what my coworkers tell me.

I am chasing my ITIL classes now, THAT means more to what I do now than PMP.

I did PM for years, I don't wanna do dat no mo.

gamer_jim · May 20, 2015

After school this year I plan on getting my PMP. It's a credential and means you can pass a test, but not necessarily apply it. We have many PMP certified PMs in my organization who can't do their job.

But it will add something for some people and might help you get the next job.

If you can get the free training for it then go for it. Can't hurt to have one more gold star next to your name.

slowpoke · May 20, 2015

I procrastinated for years but am about to start on the PMP prep myself.

Concur that the PMP cert can be a critical qualification in gov't circles. On my current contract, the PM, otherwise qualified and competent, cannot be invoiced in his appropriate labor category only because he lacks the certification.

I'm often surprised at the folks I run across with PMP who have no business (or real experience) running a project. Likewise, some of the better project managers who have worked for me have not held the certification. Around here, it's just the cost of doing business in/with the gov't.

Reptile · May 20, 2015

gamer_jim said:
After school this year I plan on getting my PMP. It's a credential and means you can pass a test, but not necessarily apply it. We have many PMP certified PMs in my organization who can't do their job.

But it will add something for some people and might help you get the next job.

If you can get the free training for it then go for it. Can't hurt to have one more gold star next to your name.

I completely disagree that the PMP cert only means that you can pass a test. You must have substantial documented relevant experience before you can even take the test and that experience has to be vouched for by previous supervisors.

Here's what the PMI says about the criteria before you cane even apply:

To apply for the PMP, you need to have either:
• A secondary degree (high school diploma, associate’s degree, or the global equivalent) with at least five years of project management experience, with 7,500 hours leading and directing projects and 35 hours of project management education.

OR

• A four-year degree (bachelor’s degree or the global equivalent) and at least three years of project management experience, with 4,500 hours leading and directing projects and 35 hours of project management education.

Yoshi · May 20, 2015

gamer_jim said:
After school this year I plan on getting my PMP. It's a credential and means you can pass a test, but not necessarily apply it. We have many PMP certified PMs in my organization who can't do their job.

But it will add something for some people and might help you get the next job.

If you can get the free training for it then go for it. Can't hurt to have one more gold star next to your name.

Agreed! I know a few who refuse to follow any of the best practices that are promoted within PMI. I just don't get it. You don't have to follow the entire process that PMI teaches, but using the common-sense techniques are proven to work. These morons who pass the test and refuse to use that knowledge are a waste.

Yoshi · May 20, 2015

Reptile said:
I completely disagree that the PMP cert only means that you can pass a test. You must have substantial documented relevant experience before you can even take the test and that experience has to be vouched for by previous supervisors.

Here's what the PMI says about the criteria before you cane even apply:

To apply for the PMP, you need to have either:
• A secondary degree (high school diploma, associate’s degree, or the global equivalent) with at least five years of project management experience, with 7,500 hours leading and directing projects and 35 hours of project management education.

OR

• A four-year degree (bachelor’s degree or the global equivalent) and at least three years of project management experience, with 4,500 hours leading and directing projects and 35 hours of project management education.

And, PMI is auditing more people than ever. I applaud their gusto for keeping the cert legitimate. Passing that test is an accomplishment because you HAVE to understand the material. The bootcamp is good at teaching the material and removing "your way" from the thought process. It's all about how PMI would do it. How that knowledge is applied or not applied is up to the individual. For some, they want it JUST for the notoriety.

erwos · May 20, 2015

Doctor_M said:
People get a little crazy with the PMP credential... "Hi, I'm John Doe, PMP!" My boss got on my case for not putting PMP on my business cards next to my Ph.D. I told him that I'm proud of my Ph.D.... that took nearly four years of study and original research and a published dissertation... my PMP took a week of study and a couple of advil. Not the same thing. If I didn't need it for work, I wouldn't have bothered with it.

Every time I see "MBA, PMP" or the like on a business card or someone's LinkedIn name, I roll my eyes pretty damn hard. If you your degree and creds are that great, you should have earned a title that's impressive unto itself. Even for a Ph.D, I'd rather just see "Dr." in front of your name, because how you want me to address you is really the relevant thing.

TheBert said:
Back when I went thru the training you needed 4500 hours as a pm if you had a college degree and 7500 hours as a pm if you didn't have a degree.

They've also tightened up what counts as hours. It's not as easy to qualify as it used to be. You can still get CAPM pretty easily, but CAPM has not had as much industry uptake as it should. As someone else has mentioned, they've also ramped up the auditing - unfortunately, I suspect experience fraud is a lot more prevalent overseas than here.

I am PMP certified. I took a boot camp and passed it on the first try. I learned a lot of useful things, albeit it was more "here's the PMI way of doing business" since I had already studied project management in my MBA program. My wife also took the boot camp and passed on her first try, and she doesn't have an MBA (on the other hand, she's smart as hell, which is handy).

I also know an experienced PM who failed repeatedly even after two runs at the boot camp. To be blunt, there are a lot of PMs out there who really don't know what they're doing. A PMP cert at least signifies that you've heard about the "correct" way of doing things (at least according to PMI). It's not the only "correct" way to do business, but at least it's documented.

In terms of usefulness: it's a pretty good indicator that you know something about project management. As others have mentioned, if you are bidding on a contract, this is something that reviewers want to see. If you are in the running for a promotion or a position in project management, advertising that you have a PMP (and explaining what it means) can really give you that extra edge. It won't get you a job unto itself. It can be pretty damned amazing for job security, especially if there aren't many PMPs in the company.

I've thought about doing PMI-RMP, PMI-ACP, or PgMP (I'm director of our PMO!), but haven't figured out my plan yet.

Yoshi · May 20, 2015

erwos said:
Every time I see "MBA, PMP" or the like on a business card or someone's LinkedIn name, I roll my eyes pretty damn hard. If you your degree and creds are that great, you should have earned a title that's impressive unto itself. Even for a Ph.D, I'd rather just see "Dr." in front of your name, because how you want me to address you is really the relevant thing.

They've also tightened up what counts as hours. It's not as easy to qualify as it used to be. You can still get CAPM pretty easily, but CAPM has not had as much industry uptake as it should. As someone else has mentioned, they've also ramped up the auditing - unfortunately, I suspect experience fraud is a lot more prevalent overseas than here.

I am PMP certified. I took a boot camp and passed it on the first try. I learned a lot of useful things, albeit it was more "here's the PMI way of doing business" since I had already studied project management in my MBA program. My wife also took the boot camp and passed on her first try, and she doesn't have an MBA (on the other hand, she's smart as hell, which is handy).

I also know an experienced PM who failed repeatedly even after two runs at the boot camp. To be blunt, there are a lot of PMs out there who really don't know what they're doing. A PMP cert at least signifies that you've heard about the "correct" way of doing things (at least according to PMI). It's not the only "correct" way to do business, but at least it's documented.

In terms of usefulness: it's a pretty good indicator that you know something about project management. As others have mentioned, if you are bidding on a contract, this is something that reviewers want to see. If you are in the running for a promotion or a position in project management, advertising that you have a PMP (and explaining what it means) can really give you that extra edge. It won't get you a job unto itself. It can be pretty damned amazing for job security, especially if there aren't many PMPs in the company.

I've thought about doing PMI-RMP, PMI-ACP, or PgMP (I'm director of our PMO!), but haven't figured out my plan yet.

I direct the PMO here as well. The PgMP keeps popping up, but I am fighting it to the bitter end. Especially since we now have multiple methodologies. (Waterfall, Agile) The Exec's really don't care what you use, they just want to see results. PMP'ers tend to do well, but with Agile gaining a lot of steam, the OP should look into that as well. Because, quite frankly, it's provides a better solution to certain projects. Having both skills (certs) is a good thing because Exec's like to see them. Having said that, a good PM can accomplish the same with no certs, but the certs are a good calling card.

OrbitalEllipses · May 20, 2015

Yoshi said:
I direct the PMO here as well. The PgMP keeps popping up, but I am fighting it to the bitter end. Especially since we now have multiple methodologies. (Waterfall, Agile) The Exec's really don't care what you use, they just want to see results. PMP'ers tend to do well, but with Agile gaining a lot of steam, the OP should look into that as well. Because, quite frankly, it's provides a better solution to certain projects. Having both skills (certs) is a good thing because Exec's like to see them. Having said that, a good PM can accomplish the same with no certs, but the certs are a good calling card.

Agile will be dead within 5 years. :sad20:

(Currently moving from Waterfall to Agile)

erwos · May 20, 2015

Yoshi said:
I direct the PMO here as well. The PgMP keeps popping up, but I am fighting it to the bitter end. Especially since we now have multiple methodologies. (Waterfall, Agile) The Exec's really don't care what you use, they just want to see results. PMP'ers tend to do well, but with Agile gaining a lot of steam, the OP should look into that as well. Because, quite frankly, it's provides a better solution to certain projects. Having both skills (certs) is a good thing because Exec's like to see them. Having said that, a good PM can accomplish the same with no certs, but the certs are a good calling card.

Oh, I definitely agree. Agile and waterfall are just a couple tools in the toolbox, and I use whatever's appropriate to the project at hand. You've also got Lean (Kanban), Extreme, and PRINCE2, to name a few others. The government's problem is that the only tool that they like to use is a hammer (waterfall) so every friggin' contract looks like a nail... so you wind up in a situation where the PMI cert has a lot of value to contracts.

This is reminding me that I should go get scrum master certified this year. Ugh.

Yoshi · May 20, 2015

OrbitalEllipses said:
Agile will be dead within 5 years.

(Currently moving from Waterfall to Agile)

I respectfully disagree. If you look at what it is, it's nothing more than a culmination of best-practices. Some of those will change, but the underlying tenets wont. It'll be around for a long time, although, maybe a different name.

Yoshi · May 20, 2015

erwos said:
Oh, I definitely agree. Agile and waterfall are just a couple tools in the toolbox, and I use whatever's appropriate to the project at hand. You've also got Lean (Kanban), Extreme, and PRINCE2, to name a few others. The government's problem is that the only tool that they like to use is a hammer (waterfall) so every friggin' contract looks like a nail... so you wind up in a situation where the PMI cert has a lot of value to contracts.

This is reminding me that I should go get scrum master certified this year. Ugh.

Don't forget to look at Scaled Agile Framework. It's the new hot-ticket.

jrumann59 · May 20, 2015

gamer_jim said:
After school this year I plan on getting my PMP. It's a credential and means you can pass a test, but not necessarily apply it. We have many PMP certified PMs in my organization who can't do their job.

But it will add something for some people and might help you get the next job.

If you can get the free training for it then go for it. Can't hurt to have one more gold star next to your name.

That is the case with all certs. I guess in the now ever competitive job market where you have a pack of hundreds or thousands fighting for a few jobs it is one method of separating the wheat from the chaff so to speak.

gamer_jim · May 20, 2015

Reptile said:
I completely disagree that the PMP cert only means that you can pass a test. You must have substantial documented relevant experience before you can even take the test and that experience has to be vouched for by previous supervisors.

Here's what the PMI says about the criteria before you cane even apply:

To apply for the PMP, you need to have either:
• A secondary degree (high school diploma, associate’s degree, or the global equivalent) with at least five years of project management experience, with 7,500 hours leading and directing projects and 35 hours of project management education.

OR

• A four-year degree (bachelor’s degree or the global equivalent) and at least three years of project management experience, with 4,500 hours leading and directing projects and 35 hours of project management education.

I didn't mean to say that PMP cert wasn't good or bad for everyone. All I was saying is that we have PMP certified PMs that can't PM. It's like a lot of things in the professional world where it's not the degree or credentials but how the person uses them. Unfortunately my organization does not require their PMs to produce anything useful.

MikeTF · May 20, 2015

gamer_jim said:
I didn't mean to say that PMP cert wasn't good or bad for everyone. All I was saying is that we have PMP certified PMs that can't PM. It's like a lot of things in the professional world where it's not the degree or credentials but how the person uses them. Unfortunately my organization does not require their PMs to produce anything useful.

Which leads back to experience.

OrbitalEllipses · May 20, 2015

gamer_jim said:
I didn't mean to say that PMP cert wasn't good or bad for everyone. All I was saying is that we have PMP certified PMs that can't PM. It's like a lot of things in the professional world where it's not the degree or credentials but how the person uses them. Unfortunately my organization does not require their PMs to produce anything useful.

It's a valued degree, which is why complete idiots have it. Met more than my fair share of PMs who can't PM.

BenL · May 20, 2015

If someone's offering to pay for it, take it.

It's not easy, but credentials do give credibility; in an ever-increasingly competitive job market, you never know what will get your foot in the door. I have an MBA, PMP, Six Sigma Green Belt, and am PACE trained. At any given time, any one of them has gotten attention and got someone to talk to me.

erwos · May 20, 2015

Yoshi said:
Don't forget to look at Scaled Agile Framework. It's the new hot-ticket.

Funny that you bring it up. I had to do something along the lines of SAF in order to comply with the contractual scheduling requirements of a project I'm managing. I was not terribly impressed with it. It's a good way to shoehorn Agile into old-style planning processes, but it simply doesn't yield the full benefits of something like Scrum.

MikeTF said:
Which leads back to experience.

I've met plenty of people with lots of experience who were completely incompetent at their jobs. That includes PMs who were successful purely because they had awesome teams, not because they added any value whatsoever. There's no magic bullet, and that does include experience.

I will say that the absolute superstar performers tend to have substantial experience, but that's about it.

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