SAF SUES IN MARYLAND OVER HANDGUN PERMIT DENIAL UPDATED 3-5-12

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    Hawkeye

    The Leatherstocking
    Jan 29, 2009
    3,971
    Well, after reading this thread this morning, I became a SAF and MSI member. Didn't have enough cash for life or executive, but I gave what I could.

    Thanks SO much all of you who have worked so hard on this for all of the rest of us.
     

    rambling_one

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Oct 19, 2007
    6,725
    Bowie, MD
    sorry if i missed this earlier, but does anyone know when the case will be heard? Also where I can look to follow it?

    I also have another question, (again sorry if I missed this somewhere else) lets say the case is won and the court decides that self defense is a substantial reason for a permit and thus allows shall issue, if the superintendent appeals it, does that ruling stay on hold and continue the rule that defense is not a good substantial reason? or does it make md shall issue until the next court the case is appealed to makes a decision?

    Mr. Hansel indicated the case would be heard across the street from his office; i.e., Greenbelt. News reports are saying the case was filed in Baltimore. This may be the site http://www.mdd.uscourts.gov/ to follow. Perhaps forum legal beagles have a better suggestion.
     

    JRoCc

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 2, 2010
    923
    Earth
    I was already a MSI member and I just joined SAF...couldn't do the life membership until next month but I'm in.
     

    Patrick

    MSI Executive Member
    Apr 26, 2009
    7,725
    Calvert County
    Deadlines will be set for initial briefs, then response to those briefs. Then MD will file a request for an extension, which SAF will oppose with a request for a Motion for Summary Judgment. The state's request will be granted, the SAF request denied.

    Then the state will file another brief and SAF will respond. At which point the court will call a hearing, where both sides will acknowledge no "finding" is required. SAF will again ask for an MSJ and MD will again request a delay. The MD motion will be denied but the court will allow MD time to formulate more arguments before actually ruling. Barring something interesting from MD, the court will issue their judgment.

    This is pretty much how every single other case has gone.

    If MD loses, they will request a stay on the MSJ while they appeal based on the inherent danger of letting people roam the streets with guns. The court may agree if MD paints a case that says they might win on appeal. But given this is a civil rights case, chances are the answer will be "tough".

    Timeline front to back: 9 months although we could see things move much faster. I might owe Krucam dinner this year, yet.

    That is one bet I'd be happy to lose.

    The big likelihood for slowing the process down will be one of the other cases making it up the chain of the 4th or to the Supreme Court before the judgment is made. Then this court will go into hiatus waiting on the Supreme/Circuit Court to decide, just like so many cases that waited on McDonald. So if the NC case advances, or if Sykes in CA moves beyond the 9th...everything will probably stop. Not sure the NY case can advance fast enough to get in the way.
     

    Inigoes

    Head'n for the hills
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 21, 2008
    49,365
    SoMD / West PA
    Deadlines will be set for initial briefs, then response to those briefs. Then MD will file a request for an extension, which SAF will oppose with a request for a Motion for Summary Judgment. The state's request will be granted, the SAF request denied.

    Then the state will file another brief and SAF will respond. At which point the court will call a hearing, where both sides will acknowledge no "finding" is required. SAF will again ask for an MSJ and MD will again request a delay. The MD motion will be denied but the court will allow MD time to formulate more options. Eventually the court will tire of MD and issue their MSJ.

    This is pretty much how every single other case has gone.

    If MD loses, they will request a stay on the MSJ while they appeal based on the inherent danger of letting people roam the streets with guns. The court may agree if MD paints a case that says they might win on appeal. But given this is a civil rights case, chances are the answer will be "tough".

    Timeline front to back: 9 months although we could see things move much faster. I might owe Krucam dinner this year, yet.

    That is one bet I'd be happy to lose.

    Unless the legislature steps in during the next session. Creating a shall issue law, instead of letting the MSP decide good/substantial reason. :innocent0
     

    Patrick

    MSI Executive Member
    Apr 26, 2009
    7,725
    Calvert County
    Unless the legislature steps in during the next session. Creating a shall issue law, instead of letting the MSP decide good/substantial reason. :innocent0

    True, that.

    But that's not going to happen until next year at the earliest. I think they will step in to create a training requirement, but leave the crux of our grief to the courts.
     

    MDFF2008

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 12, 2008
    24,735
    Unless the legislature steps in during the next session. Creating a shall issue law, instead of letting the MSP decide good/substantial reason.

    Oh they'll step in alright, but I"m sure that they won't step the way you want them too. :sad20:
     

    Sthomas229

    none
    MDS Supporter
    May 7, 2009
    6,659
    Laurel, MD
    Caught Chris Plant talking about this on his show today. It was good press and he had several callers that were in support as well.:party29:
     

    JRoCc

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 2, 2010
    923
    Earth
    If MD loses, they will request a stay on the MSJ while they appeal based on the inherent danger of letting people roam the streets with guns. The court may agree if MD paints a case that says they might win on appeal. But given this is a civil rights case, chances are the answer will be "tough".


    They're already letting people roam the streets with guns...the wrong people.
     

    haoleboy

    1/2 Banned
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 17, 2005
    4,085
    Dentsville
    If you were going to stab someone in the eye, would you say, "Hi, I'll be at your house tomorrow at 4:37pm with a 6" knife that was recently sharpened. I'll knock first, but probably just walk in anyway and come from behind and insert my knife as accurately as possible into your left eye"???

    Some things simply can't be discussed until the appropriate time...simple as that. Telegraphing one's intentions to an adversary is foolish. We know exactly who reads these forums by their email addresses and IP's and when, how often and what they read while they're here.

    On top of that, this is SAF's case for sure. It was not our place to disclose their intentions.

    As for soliciting money? People will send money to the causes they believe in without being hassled into it, as witnessed by the NRA bashing that regularly occurs due to their solicitation of funds.
    I agree with all of that Scott but.....
    If you are taking someones money to fight for a cause they believe in under the assumption you are going to actually fight, you can't blame those, who gave you money, for asking where their money is going.
    I know that MSI is fighting the good fight, I really do. I and others appreciate you guys doing the leg work that some of us can not do.

    All I'm saying is that there has to be a better way to handle the questions about the work you are doing behind the scenes.

    Are Gura, and Hansel going to keep Mr. Woollard in the loop during this trial or do you think they will tell him "go F*#@ yourself, we are in the know, you don't need to be, let us handle it"
    Would you tolerate that from your lawyer?

    I think that was a Very unprofessional response from an organization that I give my hard earned money to. If I had never donated to MSI, I wouldn't feel the way I do now. It wouldn't be my problem if I wasn't involved.

    Just my $.02, take it as you will.

    Andy
     

    Nobody

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 15, 2009
    2,810
    Again, sorry to be a stick in the mud but lets say that MD loses today and they must issue to law abiding citizens, they will take 2 years to issuse a permit and then someone will file a lawsuit and it will be again years before that is settled.

    While I appreciate the sentiment and have donated tp the SAF, I will not be holding my breath that we will soon be carrying in MD.

    Thanks for fighting but I know what we are up against and it is not good.

    NOBODY
     
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