NFA-trust or individual?

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  • coinboy

    Yeah, Sweet Lemonade.
    Oct 22, 2007
    4,480
    Howard County
    What's the benefit of purchasing a NFA device under a trust as opposed to purchasing as an individual. When I bought my Ruger AC-556 I bought it as an individual. Would it have been better to do it as a trust? What is the benefit of buying an NFA device as an individual and not a trust?

    Thanks,
    Rob
     

    JeepDriver

    Self confessed gun snob
    Aug 28, 2006
    5,193
    White Marsh
    All my SBR's and suppressors have been through a trust.

    The benifit I've found is bypassing the MSP. No finger prints, no waiting. It wouldn't be a big deal if they would do it all same day like they do in other states.

    The Trust is easy to set up, MD is not a uniform Trust state, there is no registration with the state. You only need to buy Quicken Will Maker and follow the instructions.

    Once the Trust is set up you print it out and have it notorized. Each time you send in a Form 1 or Form 4 you need to send in a copy of the Trust (make sure you send a copy, as you will not get it back)

    As you uy NFA items you go back into the origional program and edit the schedule of property. Print that out and sign. Make copies again an send off with the new Form 1 or Form 4.

    I've completed 11 transfers so far using this method. I've walked 1 other forum member through it and he's on his second transfer. It's kinda amazing it works as easily as it does.

    Now if I could just get around that $200 tax
     

    JeepDriver

    Self confessed gun snob
    Aug 28, 2006
    5,193
    White Marsh
    But if/when you give up the SOT, you either have to transfer the NFA items to another SOT or pay the $200 to transfer them to yourself. That is assuming you paid the tax in (the 11% FET tax) on the item at the time of purchase. If not that needs paid too.

    The $500 SOT isn't that big of a deal, once a year to buy all the NFA stuff you want, sort of. It would allow you to buy pre dealer samples. They cost about 60% of the cost of regular transferable NFA stuff, but still expensive. You can keep predealer samples once you give up your SOT too.

    Getting a Class II would be nice as well, but ATF wants to see you building and registering NFA items as well as having a shop. You could then build and buy new machine guns, but once you give up the Class II all the machine guns need to be transfered to another Class II or SOT, or to ATF for destruction. All those transfers would be tax free on a form 3.
     

    h2u

    Village Idiot
    Jul 8, 2007
    6,693
    South County
    I've walked 1 other forum member through it and he's on his second transfer. It's kinda amazing it works as easily as it does.

    Now if I could just get around that $200 tax


    Soon to be three if that Mossburg ever shows up.......;)
    Seriously people- "walked" me through is quite a kind description for what Jeep did for me. I appreciate it immensely. The trust is the way to go.
     

    novus collectus

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    May 1, 2005
    17,358
    Bowie
    But if/when you give up the SOT, you either have to transfer the NFA items to another SOT or pay the $200 to transfer them to yourself. That is assuming you paid the tax in (the 11% FET tax) on the item at the time of purchase. If not that needs paid too.
    Except for AOW which is a $5 transfer tax stamp, right?


    By the way, I was joking about getting the SOT, but I am damn glad you informed us with this info!
     

    novus collectus

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    May 1, 2005
    17,358
    Bowie
    Forgive my ignorance, but what is a "SOT"?

    It stands for Special Occupational Taxpayer....now just what the hell it is you have to ask JeepDriver because it gives me a damn headache just thinking about the last time I tried to understand what it is.
     

    JCB003

    Ultimate Member
    Sep 10, 2007
    1,212
    I've filed papers for 2 supressors and 5 SBR's - all as an individual. Benefits for filing as an individual - none really. Trust method is cheaper and less work involved. Why did I not set up a trust? - No reason I guess I just don't mind jumping through hoops. And I knew MD state police would sign off with no issues, so I was not worried about having a CLEO who would not sign.

    If you file as individual you have to go to a State Police barracks at a specific time of the week (posted on the State Police website) wait your turn, get your fingers dirty and pay $15 for prints ($5 per card). Usually takes about an hour from when you walk in til you leave. Then you take your form 1 or 4 and you orange print card to the Licensing Division in Pikesville and pay $18 so they can check you out. It was nice when you could do it all at the same place in Jessup, but they moved to Pikesville so now it's an extra step for me - because I get my prints now at the Glen Burnie barracks which is close to my work. Once you turn in your papers you wait for a few weeks and then you get your signed forms back to submit to the ATF along with your blue print cards.

    So with the trust you save $33 and a few hours of personal time, plus no wait for the forms to come back from MD and no risk of your prints being rejected / unreadable. Trust probably shaves 3-4 weeks off the total time.

    Thats why I now do a few at a time so it's easier and cheaper becasue you only pay the $15 / $18 once no matter how many you submit at the same time.
     

    Norton

    NRA Endowment Member, Rifleman
    Staff member
    Admin
    Moderator
    May 22, 2005
    122,852
    So, with the trust....do you ever have to get fingerprinted?
     

    JeepDriver

    Self confessed gun snob
    Aug 28, 2006
    5,193
    White Marsh
    Forgive my ignorance, but what is a "SOT"?

    Easiest way to explain it is, that it's a FFL that allows you do deal in NFA firearms.

    The normal FFL only allows you to deal in Title I firearms (pistols & rifles). A SOT is an additional yearly fee you pay that allows you to transfer title II items on a form 3, which is a tax free form.
     

    Norton

    NRA Endowment Member, Rifleman
    Staff member
    Admin
    Moderator
    May 22, 2005
    122,852
    Nope, no MSP involvement either. The state is left completely out of the process (unless you are buying a machine gun, then they get $10 a year for registration of that)

    I've got to do some more reading this. My brain is rotted from being around HS kids all of the time.....
     

    JeepDriver

    Self confessed gun snob
    Aug 28, 2006
    5,193
    White Marsh
    I'll send you a better explianation in PM later.

    But the only down side I can see is moving to another state that is in the uniform trust.

    That might be an issue, I don't know, I've never looked into it.
     

    coinboy

    Yeah, Sweet Lemonade.
    Oct 22, 2007
    4,480
    Howard County
    I've filed papers for 2 supressors and 5 SBR's - all as an individual. Benefits for filing as an individual - none really. Trust method is cheaper and less work involved. Why did I not set up a trust? - No reason I guess I just don't mind jumping through hoops. And I knew MD state police would sign off with no issues, so I was not worried about having a CLEO who would not sign.

    If you file as individual you have to go to a State Police barracks at a specific time of the week (posted on the State Police website) wait your turn, get your fingers dirty and pay $15 for prints ($5 per card). Usually takes about an hour from when you walk in til you leave. Then you take your form 1 or 4 and you orange print card to the Licensing Division in Pikesville and pay $18 so they can check you out. It was nice when you could do it all at the same place in Jessup, but they moved to Pikesville so now it's an extra step for me - because I get my prints now at the Glen Burnie barracks which is close to my work. Once you turn in your papers you wait for a few weeks and then you get your signed forms back to submit to the ATF along with your blue print cards.

    So with the trust you save $33 and a few hours of personal time, plus no wait for the forms to come back from MD and no risk of your prints being rejected / unreadable. Trust probably shaves 3-4 weeks off the total time.

    Thats why I now do a few at a time so it's easier and cheaper becasue you only pay the $15 / $18 once no matter how many you submit at the same time.

    Actually you can get fingerprinted anywhere that does them. I had the Anne Arundel County Police figerprint me on State cards. Just make sure you have the State cards and not the local ones. My paperwork went through without a hitch.
     

    Maryland_Shooter

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Feb 8, 2008
    917
    Glen Arm
    Here is the deal- the atty posted in a thread wanting $450. IMO he's a crook. Anyone want it, I will do it for free - as soon as I figure out how.

    LOTS of legal background and training, I have done tons of legal documents.

    I am gonna do one for me and as soon as it iis proved to be correct, I will post one for everyone to use - NO CHARGE.

    Of course if I found some ammo on my doorstep, I'd have to dispose of it in a safe and accepted manner.

    Interested, email me.

    marylandshooter at gmail dot com
     

    boatbod

    Ultimate Member
    Nov 30, 2007
    3,827
    Talbot Co
    The other benefit of using a trust is that any of the trustees can use the item, unlike when an individual owns an NFA item.
     

    Drmsparks

    Old School Rifleman
    Jun 26, 2007
    8,441
    PG county
    Easiest way to explain it is, that it's a FFL that allows you do deal in NFA firearms.

    The normal FFL only allows you to deal in Title I firearms (pistols & rifles). A SOT is an additional yearly fee you pay that allows you to transfer title II items on a form 3, which is a tax free form.

    Can you add the SOT to a C&R FFL to be able to deal in C&R class III's?
     

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