How many signatures would it take for these petition to matter.

danb · Nov 21, 2015

You need only less than 1.7 million, that's enough to swing an election in a presidential year (less, since turnout in off-year elections is much lower).

http://www.elections.state.md.us/elections/2012/results/general/gen_results_2012_4_001-.html

If you factor in the fact that delegates in this state are heavily gerrymandered, you need far fewer, but in well-placed districts (e.g. Bobby Zirkins' district). Basically, you only need enough to swing some Dems to pro-2A Dems or Republicans

Muleskinner · Nov 21, 2015

MigraineMan said:
Signatures are irrelevant. They are on par with facts, which are also irrelevant. You cannot bring facts to an emotional fight. When three thousand individuals show up in Annapolis to oppose legislation, the pundits trot out the "silent majority" fiction and extend that from the opposition numbers, creating a plausible-sounding support base synthesized from nothing but aether. It's magical stuff, and is gobbled-down and distributed by the mainstream media faster than grass goes through a goose.

Unfortunately, we haven't quite run out of other-people's money, so the FSA (with what appears to be at critical mass here in MD) will continue to re-elect these knuckleheads. Pushing to de-gerrymander the MD districts would probably be a better application of effort in the short term, as everything we seek to accomplish requires reformation of the Senate and House of Delegates.

Which will probably never happen..I don't like it anymore than anyone other pro 2A person, but the numbers are against us..roughly 6 million people in the state...2/3s of the voters are democrats...Now I know there are pro gun democrats (although why they remain loyal to a party that takes away their rights boggles my mind) but it's simple numbers..and we live in a representative republic where the minority has a say but ultimately the majority rules. The state refuses to recognize that they are violating the law by infringing on our 2A rights (and the rights granted in the MD Constitution) but we can't take it to the courts because they have already ruled against us. We can keep running our heads into the brick wall but all we are going to get is a headache...

Muleskinner · Nov 21, 2015

]Refresh my memory of the ideas, especially since you are inviting me to speak at your gun club.

My gun club? The only "gun clubs" I am a member of are Oathkeepers and 3%ers...I don't think they qualify as "gun clubs". I posted several ideas on MSIs Facebook page...all of them were shot down and then I was banned from posting there.

Not that challenge the same notion, no, so come up with a new angle other than what has already been done. That's just a matter of law, not saying it can't be done.

We had an opportunity to do so but the Governor caved in to Frosh...Because I have stated before, Larry Hogan is anti 2A...(yeah I know, he's just trying to appease the democrats to get his financial agenda passed blah blah blah)

Really, then why did I just have a planning meeting with the MRA-ILA rep and their lobbyist yesterday, along with AGC and MSRPA to make plans for the upcoming legislative session?

A meeting...as in words...point to me some actual actions that the NRA has taken to further our shall issue cause in the recent past...By the way, is MSI still begging for money to fund the HQL law suit?

Can you provide hard proof that they have been and are unwilling to try?

Last year $50,000 was the total spent by pro gun lobbyists...That info is from a post right here on the forums...Search for it.

Great, how do we start to reach out to them?

I guess reach out to minority gun clubs would be a start....they do exist..Mine the NRA member data base? I don't know if the NRA requires to know a person's race when they join...They shouldn't but maybe they ask for that info?

redeemed.man · Nov 21, 2015

Schipperke said:
Interesting how petitioning for a right doesn't bother anyone, but voting does.

Sad but true

dblas · Nov 21, 2015

Muleskinner said:
]Refresh my memory of the ideas, especially since you are inviting me to speak at your gun club.

My gun club? The only "gun clubs" I am a member of are Oathkeepers and 3%ers...I don't think they qualify as "gun clubs". I posted several ideas on MSIs Facebook page...all of them were shot down and then I was banned from posting there.

Not sure why you got banned from the FB page, I will check with the team that runs because we very rarely if ever ban anyone unless they are an out and out ass.

Muleskinner said:
Not that challenge the same notion, no, so come up with a new angle other than what has already been done. That's just a matter of law, not saying it can't be done.

We had an opportunity to do so but the Governor caved in to Frosh...Because I have stated before, Larry Hogan is anti 2A...(yeah I know, he's just trying to appease the democrats to get his financial agenda passed blah blah blah)

We had an opportunity to do what, bring another lawsuit? This answer was in response to lawsuits, not legislation.

Muleskinner said:
Really, then why did I just have a planning meeting with the MRA-ILA rep and their lobbyist yesterday, along with AGC and MSRPA to make plans for the upcoming legislative session?

A meeting...as in words...point to me some actual actions that the NRA has taken to further our shall issue cause in the recent past...By the way, is MSI still begging for money to fund the HQL law suit?

They continue to fund the Kolbe case, they continue to have actual meeting, along with MSI, AGC and MSRPA with Delegates and Senators, off session, about firearms and 2A issues in Maryland. Just because they don't advertise it in the NRA newsletter doesn't mean they aren't active.

Muleskinner said:
Can you provide hard proof that they have been and are unwilling to try?

Last year $50,000 was the total spent by pro gun lobbyists...That info is from a post right here on the forums...Search for it.

Yep, because the NRA-ILA rep, Shannon Alford, was available and working the legislative session mist of the time. It is called financial responsibility, if you are able to do the work yourself, why pay someone else to do it? The NRA only has one lobbyist firm, they are used to support Shannon, not replace her or any other employee at the NRA-ILA.

Muleskinner said:
Great, how do we start to reach out to them?

I guess reach out to minority gun clubs would be a start....they do exist..Mine the NRA member data base? I don't know if the NRA requires to know a person's race when they join...They shouldn't but maybe they ask for that info?

The NRA doesn't share their membership list, we and other 2A organizations have asked, unlike other national 2A organizations. As for the minority clubs, there are two that I am aware of and we have been talking to them for several years. They can't get their members to turn out to Annapolis. So the question becomes, how do we make them a part of the larger community? Although I'm not sure any of them would if they are a Democrat given how much actual hatred there is from a lot of people on this board towards Democrats in general.

Muleskinner · Nov 21, 2015

Not sure why you got banned from the FB page, I will check with the team that runs because we very rarely if ever ban anyone unless they are an out and out ass.

Viewing someone as an ass is relative to your point of view...

We had an opportunity to do what, bring another lawsuit? This answer was in response to lawsuits, not legislation.

No...Hogan could have ordered Pallozi to accept self defense as G&S regardless of Frosh's OPINION...Yes, Frosh would have sued...which is EXACTLY what we want...get it back before the court, take it all the way...but he failed to do so...

They continue to fund the Kolbe case, they continue to have actual meeting, along with MSI, AGC and MSRPA with Delegates and Senators, off session, about firearms and 2A issues in Maryland. Just because they don't advertise it in the NRA newsletter doesn't mean they aren't active.

Which delegates and senators? Republicans? That's preaching to the choir...Chances are it wasn't the liberal democrats who's vote are the ones we actually need...it's doubtful many wouldn't open their door to the NRA...

Yep, because the NRA-ILA rep, Shannon Alford, was available and working the legislative session mist of the time. It is called financial responsibility, if you are able to do the work yourself, why pay someone else to do it? The NRA only has one lobbyist firm, they are used to support Shannon, not replace her or any other employee at the NRA-ILA.

Yeah, thanks for answering my question...and proving my point...it's a couple of hundred thousand dollars..chump change for the NRA...and yet they won't help? That speaks volumes...

The NRA doesn't share their membership list, we and other 2A organizations have asked, unlike other national 2A organizations. As for the minority clubs, there are two that I am aware of and we have been talking to them for several years. They can't get their members to turn out to Annapolis. So the question becomes, how do we make them a part of the larger community? Although I'm not sure any of them would if they are a Democrat given how much actual hatred there is from a lot of people on this board towards Democrats in general.

Let's see...who's the political party trying to remove our method of self defense...oh yeah that would be the DEMOCRATS...If you have to wonder why there is hatred you aren't paying attention...

Schipperke · Nov 21, 2015

MigraineMan said:
Signatures are irrelevant. They are on par with facts, which are also irrelevant. You cannot bring facts to an emotional fight. When three thousand individuals show up in Annapolis to oppose legislation, the pundits trot out the "silent majority" fiction and extend that from the opposition numbers, creating a plausible-sounding support base synthesized from nothing but aether. It's magical stuff, and is gobbled-down and distributed by the mainstream media faster than grass goes through a goose.

Unfortunately, we haven't quite run out of other-people's money, so the FSA (with what appears to be at critical mass here in MD) will continue to re-elect these knuckleheads. Pushing to de-gerrymander the MD districts would probably be a better application of effort in the short term, as everything we seek to accomplish requires reformation of the Senate and House of Delegates.

Summed up very nicely.

dblas said:
........ Although I'm not sure any of them would if they are a Democrat given how much actual hatred there is from a lot of people on this board towards Democrats in general.

This is a conundrum that is easy to understand. Someone who wants to come off living and breathing that the 2A is their priority in life, so much so to advocate for it, being in allegiance with the Democrats who espouse gun control ad nauseum, collectivism and never a problem denying most any liberty. It is really a paradox.

Muleskinner · Nov 21, 2015

This is a conundrum that is easy to understand. Someone who wants to come off living and breathing that the 2A is their priority in life, so much so to advocate for it, being in allegiance with the Democrats who espouse gun control ad nauseum, collectivism and never a problem denying most any liberty. It is really a paradox.[/QUOTE]

It's not that big of a paradox. The 2nd Amendment was placed 2nd for a reason. It is the keystone of the entire bill of rights. Without it, the rest of the document is toothless. Freedom should be everyone's priority. The democrat party of 50 years ago doesn't exist anymore (there's pretty good evidence that it's now the centrist Republicans). You cannot support today's democrat party without admitting that you are supporting anti freedom. Removing guns from law abiding citizens cannot logically be tied to public safety because there is more evidence supporting firearms save way more lives than they kill. The desire to remove firearms from the people is for one reason and one reason only...to gather control and remain in power...and then do what ever they want to us...if that sounds like freedom to you, then by all means continue to support the left...I for one would rather die in a pile of hot brass defending my right to freedom than to become a slave to the whims of leftist politicians who's ultimate goal is to remove the title citizen and replace it with the word slave..

Biggfoot44 · Nov 21, 2015

Registering as Democrat is not the same thing as agreeing with them. For the majority ( of the population ) of our State registering as anything other than D is disenfranchising yourself nearly the same as never voting.

Likewise momentarily give benefit of doubt that some politicians have at least partial motivation to actually serve the public instead of solely collecting graft/ ego tripping/ druming influence for their law practice. If they want to actually hold ofice instead of "stiring the debate" while getting single digit vote % , , the odds strongly favor working within the overwhelmingly dominate Party , wether they largely agree with them or not.

Hating the Dem leadership both in office & party structure is good thing. Low level politicians need to be on case by case. Dem voters we need to reach out to .

( Disclosure - After 37yr as Rep , I went DINO, kicking myself I didn't do so 15yr sooner.)

Muleskinner · Nov 21, 2015

Biggfoot44 said:
Registering as Democrat is not the same thing as agreeing with them. For the majority ( of the population ) of our State registering as anything other than D is disenfranchising yourself nearly the same as never voting.

Likewise momentarily give benefit of doubt that some politicians have at least partial motivation to actually serve the public instead of solely collecting graft/ ego tripping/ druming influence for their law practice. If they want to actually hold ofice instead of "stiring the debate" while getting single digit vote % , , the odds strongly favor working within the overwhelmingly dominate Party , wether they largely agree with them or not.

Hating the Dem leadership both in office & party structure is good thing. Low level politicians need to be on case by case. Dem voters we need to reach out to .

( Disclosure - After 37yr as Rep , I went DINO, kicking myself I didn't do so 15yr sooner.)

In principal it sounds like a sound strategy...but there aren't enough people doing it to make a difference. It would be great to get enough people to do that to sway the dem gubernatorial election so the weakest candidate won...BUT the liberal democrats would STILL vote for that person and the only thing we would end up with is an inept liberal governor...Besides that, there are other reasons that you won't want to be a registered democrat that I won't go into here...let's just say if you can't prove that you're actually a DINO you could be in a pickle in the future..there are a lot people much more militant about hating democrats than I am..

DC-W · Nov 21, 2015

Muleskinner said:
Besides that, there are other reasons that you won't want to be a registered democrat that I won't go into here...let's just say if you can't prove that you're actually a DINO you could be in a pickle in the future..there are a lot people much more militant about hating democrats than I am..

What are these "people much more militant about hating democrats than I am.." going to do?

dblas · Nov 21, 2015

Muleskinner said:
Not sure why you got banned from the FB page, I will check with the team that runs because we very rarely if ever ban anyone unless they are an out and out ass.

Viewing someone as an ass is relative to your point of view...

You are correct and you can come off as an ass on occasion from my point of view.

Muleskinner said:
We had an opportunity to do what, bring another lawsuit? This answer was in response to lawsuits, not legislation.

No...Hogan could have ordered Pallozi to accept self defense as G&S regardless of Frosh's OPINION...Yes, Frosh would have sued...which is EXACTLY what we want...get it back before the court, take it all the way...but he failed to do so...

That opportunity hasn't passed yet, just because it hasn't happened on a timeline you like.

Muleskinner said:
They continue to fund the Kolbe case, they continue to have actual meeting, along with MSI, AGC and MSRPA with Delegates and Senators, off session, about firearms and 2A issues in Maryland. Just because they don't advertise it in the NRA newsletter doesn't mean they aren't active.

Which delegates and senators? Republicans? That's preaching to the choir...Chances are it wasn't the liberal democrats who's vote are the ones we actually need...it's doubtful many wouldn't open their door to the NRA...

Some of them have been, not all of them with a D behind their name aren't against talking to us or working with us. The sooner you understand that, the sooner you will stop looking like an ass.

Muleskinner said:
Yep, because the NRA-ILA rep, Shannon Alford, was available and working the legislative session mist of the time. It is called financial responsibility, if you are able to do the work yourself, why pay someone else to do it? The NRA only has one lobbyist firm, they are used to support Shannon, not replace her or any other employee at the NRA-ILA.

Yeah, thanks for answering my question...and proving my point...it's a couple of hundred thousand dollars..chump change for the NRA...and yet they won't help? That speaks volumes...

So, you think they should spend more? On what? You actually want the NRA to be fiscally irresponsible?

Muleskinner said:
The NRA doesn't share their membership list, we and other 2A organizations have asked, unlike other national 2A organizations. As for the minority clubs, there are two that I am aware of and we have been talking to them for several years. They can't get their members to turn out to Annapolis. So the question becomes, how do we make them a part of the larger community? Although I'm not sure any of them would if they are a Democrat given how much actual hatred there is from a lot of people on this board towards Democrats in general.

Let's see...who's the political party trying to remove our method of self defense...oh yeah that would be the DEMOCRATS...If you have to wonder why there is hatred you aren't paying attention...

And yet, that hatred is what prevents the majority of minorities from joining our community, and if you can't see that, then you are an ass with blinders on to paint all Democrats with the same broad ass brush.

You and people like you are the reason we can't make any headway with the minorities with regards to bringing them into the firearms community, because you can't get it through your thick brainwashed head, that not all Democrats are the same with regards to every issue.

sgt23preston · Nov 21, 2015

How many signatures would it take for these petition to matter. Reload this Page Rep

Just 2 actually...

Frosh & Hogan...

BeoBill · Nov 21, 2015

Zipping to the end of the Peeing Contest

sgt23preston said:
Just 2 actually...

Frosh & Hogan...

Nailed it!

Schipperke · Apr 17, 2016

Not many interested in Maryland.. Many months

How many signatures would it take for these petition to matter.

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