HOW to APPLY for a MARYLAND Carry Permit

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  • kenpo333

    Ultimate Member
    Industry Partner
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 18, 2012
    3,322
    Salisbury Maryland
    Glad I checked back on this thread. Having the captain around is a valuable asset! Thanks for your advice.
     

    HeatSeeker

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 18, 2012
    3,058
    Maryland
    You are not prohibited from consuming alcohol while carrying with a permit. Intoxication would require proof similar to that of a DUI arrest. You would not be compelled to submit to any tests though.
    I will surely take your word for this Jack, but have to ask out of curiousity. The regulations state that any wearing, carrying, or transporting of handguns by a permit holder while "under the influence" shall constitute cause for revocation of permit. It does not say intoxicated. So wouldn't consuming just 1 alcoholic beverage technically make a person under the influence, therefore prohibiting any alcohol consumption while carrying?

    I would also like to say welcome and that it is awesome that you have chosen to become a member of MDS!
     

    Jack McCauley

    Active Member
    Oct 16, 2014
    193
    Intoxicated is probably too strong of a term. I forget sometimes you guys on this forum analyze the very finest details. But that is a good thing. Under the influence would mean "Impairment." You can drive a vehicle legally in Maryland after consuming alcohol. However, you can be arrested if an officer develops probable cause to show you are impaired or intoxicated. The proof that is generally required for a conviction is testimony from the officer that describes what he/she observed. That testimony will require the officer to show he/she has been trained in recognizing impairment and the officer has had experience in observing impairment. This training and experience generally comes from formal training that meets the Maryland Police and Correctional Training guidelines where a class participant consumes a known amount of alcohol during a known time period. The participants' actual BAC is tested to show their level of impairment. Using the guidelines established by MD law under the Per Se rule, we know that impairment begins at .07 BAC. The number of drinks it takes to reach a .07 varies by person depending on weight, size etc. The average size man will not reach a .07 from two drinks. Next, the officer will need to testify as to the field sobriety tests that were given to help evaluate the driver's impairment level. These tests are standardized. If the officer fails to follows the proper guidelines on the administration of the tests, they are generally discarded by the court as bad evidence. Next the court relies most on the official test that is used to determine the level of BAC. The equipment used to administer this test is calibrated and examined monthly under the Office of the Medical Examiner's guidelines by Maryland law. The officer administering the test must be trained and must have maintained a certification to administer the test. If a person who is legally authorized to carry a handgun with a valid permit in the State of Maryland has alcohol in their system, there would need to be proof, beyond a reasonable doubt, before this would lead to a conviction. There are laws in Maryland that penalize a driver for refusing to take tests which will accurately determine their level of impairment. Without these tests, most DUI cases are lost unless the officer can do a very good job of articulating his/her observations. In most cases, the offender has to be very intoxicated to reveal sufficient observations. There are no penalties for a person, who is authorized to carry a handgun by permit, that refuses any tests offered by a uniformed officer. Most of the time, the permit violation is only observed when a person is arrested for DUI and they are carrying. And more often than not, the charges related to the Handgun Permit violation are dismissed as a matter of a plea agreement.
     

    Gryphon

    inveniam viam aut faciam
    Patriot Picket
    Mar 8, 2013
    6,993
    Heatseeker i realize you addressed the question the Captain, but I stumbled across it while drinking my coffee. Your interpretation of the law is flawed. To be under the influence under the law requires the substance use to manifest itself in an observable and measureable impairment. You can drink a beer and not be under the influence when you drive a car. Same for carrying. I am not advocating alcohol and guns, but if your interpretation was correct blood alcohol content would be meanigless. The mere existence of any alcohol would expose you to an automatice dui charge, and that is not the way it works.
     

    Blaster229

    God loves you, I don't.
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 14, 2010
    46,409
    Glen Burnie
    Heatseeker i realize you addressed the question the Captain, but I stumbled across it while drinking my coffee. Your interpretation of the law is flawed. To be under the influence under the law requires the substance use to manifest itself in an observable and measureable impairment. You can drink a beer and not be under the influence when you drive a car. Same for carrying. I am not advocating alcohol and guns, but if your interpretation was correct blood alcohol content would be meanigless. The mere existence of any alcohol would expose you to an automatice dui charge, and that is not the way it works.
    I have been carrying for almost 20 years as an leo. I am pretty adamant about no drinking while carrying. Mainly because any alcohol violation while carrying is a fireable offense.
    I understand one drink while out you won't be hammered. However, while out, you were seen drinking. Let's say you shot someone after that one drink. The conundrum of the perception that you were "at the bar drinking" is a tough addition to an already tough self defense case you will go through.
    I don't even know why the legal minutiae of drinking while carrying should be debated. Don't do it. Not one sip.
    People carry because they never know when they might need it. That time might be when you were seen leaving a bar.
    I've always said if I were in a shooting, I am immediately volunteering for a blood test to eliminate any question at all that there may have been any alcohol involvement.
    I drink. It can be said by others that I do, so that means it could be brought up at trial. I want to nip that in the bud immediately before it even comes up.

    It just sounds like some here are making the argument it might be ok to have some while carrying
    (playing the probably cause odds until you actually get caught)
     

    redeemed.man

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 29, 2013
    17,444
    HoCo
    I have been carrying for almost 20 years as an leo. I am pretty adamant about no drinking while carrying. Mainly because any alcohol violation while carrying is a fireable offense.
    I understand one drink while out you won't be hammered. However, while out, you were seen drinking. Let's say you shot someone after that one drink. The conundrum of the perception that you were "at the bar drinking" is a tough addition to an already tough self defense case you will go through.
    I don't even know why the legal minutiae of drinking while carrying should be debated. Don't do it. Not one sip.
    People carry because they never know when they might need it. That time might be when you were seen leaving a bar.
    I've always said if I were in a shooting, I am immediately volunteering for a blood test to eliminate any question at all that there may have been any alcohol involvement.
    I drink. It can be said by others that I do, so that means it could be brought up at trial. I want to nip that in the bud immediately before it even comes up.

    It just sounds like some here are making the argument it might be ok to have some while carrying
    (playing the probably cause odds until you actually get caught)
    I am on the same page. Not one drink. I went to an after Halloween party Saturday in No. VA. I was carrying and had no intention to drink. I ended up accepting one beer after I went out to the car and secured my gun in a vehicle safe. I did not have any other drinks. Even one beer is enough for me not to carry. It is a personal choice and it is about what could be said if I did use the gun in a defense scenario. Prosecutors make legal actions seem illegal to uneducated jurors every day for a living.
     

    HeatSeeker

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 18, 2012
    3,058
    Maryland
    I have been carrying for almost 20 years as an leo. I am pretty adamant about no drinking while carrying. Mainly because any alcohol violation while carrying is a fireable offense.
    I understand one drink while out you won't be hammered. However, while out, you were seen drinking. Let's say you shot someone after that one drink. The conundrum of the perception that you were "at the bar drinking" is a tough addition to an already tough self defense case you will go through.
    I don't even know why the legal minutiae of drinking while carrying should be debated. Don't do it. Not one sip.
    People carry because they never know when they might need it. That time might be when you were seen leaving a bar.
    I've always said if I were in a shooting, I am immediately volunteering for a blood test to eliminate any question at all that there may have been any alcohol involvement.
    I drink. It can be said by others that I do, so that means it could be brought up at trial. I want to nip that in the bud immediately before it even comes up.

    It just sounds like some here are making the argument it might be ok to have some while carrying
    (playing the probably cause odds until you actually get caught)
    This ^^ is the point I am pushing!

    I will not be the one trying to argue to a judge that I only had a small amount of alcohol or drugs and it had not manifested itself into an observable or measurable impairment while carrying my firearm.
     

    HeatSeeker

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 18, 2012
    3,058
    Maryland
    Heatseeker i realize you addressed the question the Captain, but I stumbled across it while drinking my coffee. Your interpretation of the law is flawed. To be under the influence under the law requires the substance use to manifest itself in an observable and measureable impairment. You can drink a beer and not be under the influence when you drive a car. Same for carrying. I am not advocating alcohol and guns, but if your interpretation was correct blood alcohol content would be meanigless. The mere existence of any alcohol would expose you to an automatice dui charge, and that is not the way it works.
    I am not trying to interpret the law, just opining on it.....and unfortunately speaking from experience. Many years ago I found myself in a situation where there was no observable or measurable impairment with a BAC well below the impaired level. However I still suffered the consequences of being declared under the influence. This was after consuming 2 Coors Lights. So you see the mere existence of any alcohol did expose me to an automatic DUI charge. Thankfully it did not expose me to an automatic conviction, just a lot of stress and a huge pain in the wallet.
     

    Gryphon

    inveniam viam aut faciam
    Patriot Picket
    Mar 8, 2013
    6,993
    Like I said in my post I am not advocating alcohol and guns, just distinguishing good practice from the actual law. We'd all probably agree that its a good practice not to drink a beer and then drive a 4,000 lb. vehicle and hour later at 65 mph, but I bet all of us can't claim to follow that good practice, and the law doesn't prohibit it.
     

    Jack McCauley

    Active Member
    Oct 16, 2014
    193
    Great responses. I'm pleased too see so many responsible gun owners and permit holders. My responses are typically honest answers to questions based upon my experience. I do not advocate carrying while drinking. Just clarifying the legal ramifications if you choose to. Under Maryland law, as a Handgun Permit holder, you are still carrying under the authority of your permit. If you were at a social gathering and decided to secure your handgun in the vehicle so you could drink responsibly and you had someone drive you home in that same vehicle; even if the firearm is secured in a locked container, you are transporting the firearm under the permit unless you meet another exemption for transport. My responses were intended to address legality not morality. There are many instances when we attempt to do the right thing but still find ourselves unwittingly in violation of the law.
     

    montoya32

    Ultimate Member
    Patriot Picket
    Jun 16, 2010
    11,311
    Harford Co
    When filling out an application, do I enter the application date at the top of each page and the livescan info or do I just include the livescan receipt?

    Edit: Got my answer from MDSP. Leave those areas blank and no notary needed.
     

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