PSA AR47 Complete upper

gvan1998 · Jul 28, 2015

Hello,

Im a long time lurker but first time posting! I have learned a lot through this forum.

Im confused about the AR15 chambered in 7.62x39 (AKA AK 47 rounds and NOT the Winchester 308, 7.62x51). I called MSP and they said that any AR15 chambered in 7.62x39 is illegal unless Hbar due to that fact its a copy of a Colt AR15, sharing the same components and same lower.

I thought the 7.62x39 is not banned by the new law since its not chambered in 223/556 and uses a different barrel. Yet on their website the Windham Weaponry 762 AR 15 is listed as legal which is NOT a Heavy Barrel.

So, if I buy a AR15 7.62x39 complete upper NON H-bar, government countour and slap it on a new lower,is it legal?

2nd Question, Piston AR 15 chambered in 223-556 non H-Bar legal? Again MSP stated its illegal due to fact it uses same components as the Colt AR15. But the piston uses a completely different BCG system.

BigDaddy · Jul 28, 2015

As for question 1, you may want to do more research on the 7.62x39 platform reliability in the AR15. The Mutant got around that by using AK mags.

The pistol caliber AR15's are considered HBAR because of the diameter of the barrel. HBAR is not defined term in the law. Someone will tell us if that is the case fro 7.62x39 as well.

gvan1998 said:
2nd Question, Piston AR 15 chambered in 223-556 non H-Bar legal? Again MSP stated its illegal due to fact it uses same components as the Colt AR15. But the piston uses a completely different BCG system.

Illegal because the MSP says so, the facts have little to do with the interpretation.

Jaybeez · Jul 28, 2015

the ar15 in 5.56 and 7.62x39 share the same receiver, bolt carrier, trigger group, bolt hold open ect ect

that have interchangeable internals and the same receiver.

the ar10, in 308/7.62 nato is a completely different receiver than the banned ar15.

slapping the ar47 on a new lower would be manufactuing a banned rifle. not legal.

piston rifle are on a case by case basis right now. as far as i know msp has approved at least 1 specific model

gvan1998 · Jul 28, 2015

Jaybeez said:
the ar15 in 5.56 and 7.62x39 share the same receiver, bolt carrier, trigger group, bolt hold open ect ect

that have interchangeable internals and the same receiver.

the ar10, in 308/7.62 nato is a completely different receiver than the banned ar15.

slapping the ar47 on a new lower would be manufactuing a banned rifle. not legal.

piston rifle are on a case by case basis right now. as far as i know msp has approved at least 1 specific model

Thanks for the info!
Im still confused, Windham Weaponry AR 15 in 7.62x39 is listed as legal on MSP's list of rifles. The Windham Weaponry is a NON Hbar and uses the same lower as any other AR15s. Unless MSP is confused, thinking that this Windham Weaponry is a AR10.

OnTarget · Jul 28, 2015

BigDaddy said:
As for question 1, you may want to do more research on the 7.62x39 platform reliability in the AR15. The Mutant got around that by using AK mags.

The pistol caliber AR15's are considered HBAR because of the diameter of the barrel. HBAR is not defined term in the law. Someone will tell us if that is the case fro 7.62x39 as well.

Illegal because the MSP says so, the facts have little to do with the interpretation.

What do you mean by "The Mutant got around that by using AK mags." Please explain. Thanks.

Also, for what it's worth, there are about 20 positive reviews on PSA about the PSA AR47 7.62x39 complete upper used on an Ar-15 lower. I'm thinking they improved on it, but just conjecture.

BigDaddy · Jul 28, 2015

OnTarget said:
What do you mean by "The Mutant got around that by using AK mags." Please explain. Thanks.

That was an over simplification on my part. The mag wells are shorter in the Mutant and the LAR 47 which may help with feeding and the radius found in 7.62x39 mags. This guy had an assortment of feeding and extraction problems http://www.alloutdoor.com/2014/11/25/making-ar-15-7-62x39-work-reliably/

By virtue of being a larger caliber the 7.62 may qualify as an HBAR, or it may not.

Currently the MSP doesn't insist that the barrel be stamped HBAR. However short of being marketed as an HBAR there is no actual barrel dimension in the law that answers the question.

gvan1998 · Jul 28, 2015

BigDaddy said:
That was an over simplification on my part. The mag wells are shorter in the Mutant and the LAR 47 which may help with feeding and the radius found in 7.62x39 mags. This guy had an assortment of feeding and extraction problems http://www.alloutdoor.com/2014/11/25/making-ar-15-7-62x39-work-reliably/

By virtue of being a larger caliber the 7.62 may qualify as an HBAR, or it may not.

Currently the MSP doesn't insist that the barrel be stamped HBAR. However short of being marketed as an HBAR there is no actual barrel dimension in the law that answers the question.

So basically 7.62 will qualify as a HBAR even if its not a HBAR barrel?

Jaybeez · Jul 29, 2015

gvan1998 said:
So basically 7.62 will qualify as a HBAR even if its not a HBAR barrel?

Guidance from msp to a few dealers was that it has to be either marked or marketed as hbar.

gvan1998 · Jul 29, 2015

Jaybeez said:
Guidance from msp to a few dealers was that it has to be either marked or marketed as hbar.

I understand but thats for 223/556 but we are talking about about 7.62 calibers to see if its exempt from hbar. Again windham 762 is legal in Md per MSP and the manufacturer stated its not a hbar.

I just ordered the psa ar47 upper, if windham is legal i dont see why not it wouldnt be legal for me to slap on the upper to my lower. So far i have not heard a clear answer from all the previous postings.

gvan1998 · Jul 30, 2015

Anybody else that can help me with this question?

NateIU10 · Jul 30, 2015

Feel free to stop in any time if you'd like, it's far too complicated to type this late.

gvan1998 · Aug 6, 2015

Update
Just received my PA47 upper yesterday. Surprisingly the barrel is a HBAR or at least looks like it. The diameter stays the same size and does not get smaller after the gas block. the diameter only get bigger near the upper receiver. Looks like I don't have worry about being legal or not now since its a HBAR.

fidelity · Aug 6, 2015

Per unit length, a 7.62 barrel will be heavier than a 5.56 HBAR if the cross-sectional diameter of the barrel is the same and the barrel material is the same. It's got a wider circumference, so there's more material to go around. In some instances, a 7.62 barrel will be heavier than a 5.56 HBAR even if the cross-sectional diameter of 5.56 HBAR is slightly wider. Mass per unit length is key (and as you noted, barrel profile is another criteria that might come into play from MSP's perspective).

It might be nice to know the weight of the 16-inch barrel from a Colt 6721 if this is being used as a benchmark.

dtmeyers · Aug 6, 2015

Jaybeez said:
Guidance from msp to a few dealers was that it has to be either marked or marketed as hbar.

I called and asked and was told by 0.750...

or just buy this:

http://www.radicalfirearms.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=RFUPPER16-7.62X39HBAR-10FGS&CartID=1

or this

https://www.hardenedarms.com/ecProduct_228_32

gvan1998 · Aug 6, 2015

dtmeyers said:
I called and asked and was told by 0.750...

or just buy this:

http://www.radicalfirearms.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=RFUPPER16-7.62X39HBAR-10FGS&CartID=1

or this

https://www.hardenedarms.com/ecProduct_228_32

Then by that definition, PSA in fact a hbar.

dtmeyers · Aug 6, 2015

gvan1998 said:
Then by that definition, PSA in fact a hbar.

Well it's not in writing from MDSP - not like that ever mattered

PSA AR47 Complete upper

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

Member

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Member

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Member

Ultimate Member

Member

Member

Ultimate Member

Member

piled higher and deeper

Active Member

Member

Active Member

Users who are viewing this thread

Log in

Forum statistics