AK 47 And Ammo

DarthZed · Feb 29, 2012

Nemesis that doesn't seem a little odd with that much shift in p o i with different ammo?

Very interesting article here showing the accuracy of various types of .308 ammo. Assuming the shooter was aiming at the same point each time; the change in POI is obvious. I've seen similar articles with even greater results in POI (click to second page for the comparison pics). http://theboxotruth.com/docs/edu31.htm

UserIdNotValid · Feb 29, 2012

To be honest I don't know why your worried about groupings. The AK is not ment to be a tack driver. Its a serious combat "I'm gonna kill you and you'll like it" rifle. So as long as your hitting the target everytime at any distance the groupings don't matter. Now if your not on the paper its time to worry but I use golden tiger in my wasr and I've noticed the groupings are better than any ammo I've feed it. But its already been said every AK is different so some will prefer one ammo over the other.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using Tapatalk

Drew1340 · Feb 29, 2012

DarthZed thanks for the link, that was a nice read...

StantonCree · Feb 29, 2012

Does your saiga have a muzzle brake? Ur wasr should have a slant brake this could be an issue with follow up shots.

Drew1340 · Feb 29, 2012

saigas both have the 74 style break, the cai underfolder has the slant break...

Scott7891 · Mar 1, 2012

Drew1340 said:
saigas both have the 74 style break, the cai underfolder has the slant break...

That could also come into affect on why the accuracy differences.
The slant break is nothing but a glorified muzzle nut that is supposed to help in full-auto fire since the ak has a tendency because of the way it was designed to go up and left instead of up and center like most rifles.
The muzzle brakes helped to channel that same energy but the gas is diverted differently which again will affect poi.

But like UserIdNotValid said it is designed to be a combat arm not a sub-moa bench gun.

Drew1340 · Mar 1, 2012

I would be happy with a 5 inch group at 50 to 100 yards...

Nemesis · Mar 1, 2012

is it really grouping that poorly? i find that hard to believe that it would be putting down 5" groups at just 50 yards...

peace · Mar 1, 2012

Nemesis said:
is it really grouping that poorly? i find that hard to believe that it would be putting down 5" groups at just 50 yards...

Some of it could be more operator error than gun capability.

Drew1340 · Mar 3, 2012

I would say in most cases opperator error is corect with most situations but the cai is grouping at one inch at 50 yards, and I am no sniper but I can hold my own with damn near any fire arm... so I am concerning myself mostly with my saigas as having a possible issue more so than myself... but again I will run more ammo and see what I can throw down when I have time to actually sit and really trach each brand of ammo bullet weight and see how it prints out... I firmly believe that saiga will hold there own.. one the two saigas I have is pretty decent the other is my work in progress...

sykesville · Mar 3, 2012

are AK-47s regulated?

StantonCree · Mar 3, 2012

sykesville said:
are AK-47s regulated?

Yes

Drew1340 · Mar 3, 2012

Nemesis · Mar 3, 2012

AK-47s are class III, and require alot of paper work...lol

semi-automatic kalashnikov or AK pattern rifles on the other hand...well, it depends...

generally speaking most places will transfer ANY Kalashnikov type rifle as a regulated firearm...that being said, saiga rifles SHOULD be handled as non-regulated as they do not meet the requirements...however most FFLs value covering their ass from a phantom force over actually sticking to the laws.

edit: sorry for being a smart ass, i just really hate semi autos being called by their full auto counterparts names...calling something like a saiga, wasr, or arsenal a AK47 or AK74, AKM, AK-100anything is just plain wrong and is the same as calling a AR15 a M4 or M16...or a M1A a M14

sykesville · Mar 3, 2012

thanks all... For some reason I was thinking AK-47's imported to the US were merely semi-auto Kalashnikovs.

Nemesis · Mar 3, 2012

sykesville said:
thanks all... For some reason I was thinking AK-47's imported to the US were merely semi-auto Kalashnikovs.

the biggest difference between the full auto assault rifle versions and the semi auto civilian versions is the evil third hole. the third hole is for the auto-sear, having a rifle with this hole, even without a auto-sear in it, is illegal as all hell...some receivers will have the X reinforcement stamp where the hole is supposed to go, but the hole will not be drilled.

sometimes there will be other modifications made to parts within the gun to remove any full auto capability. arsenal actually does this...one of the modifications they do is to grind off a section of the bolt carrier group that would actuate the auto-sear. anyone who has a normal saiga rifle, and a arsenal rifle compare your BCGs, flip it over with the charging handle facing your left, on that same side you will notice the difference. also arsenal mills the safety selector so that it cannot engage the disconnector...there are a few other small differences but thats the major things.

so even if someone did get a FA FCG, and drilled the third hole in their SGL-21 or 31, installed all of the parts correctly...the rifle still would not fire FA without a new safety selector and bolt carrier group.

edit: because i feel like typing more...here are a few more little facts/interesting things.

the izmash factory in russia does not make many parts specifically for the saiga rifles series...there are many parts that are used out of the same batches as those going into assault rifles...the bolt, bolt carrier group, dissconnector, and safety selector are the most notable of these parts.

years back there was a small shipment of saiga rifles that passed through customs inspection with the third hole...apparently they ran out of saiga recievers and just used normal AK-100 series recievers...Opps...the possession of one of these is obviously illegal...those rifles are nothing but an autosear away from a real joy to shoot

Jimbob2.0 · Mar 3, 2012

You could order some brass and zome Zmax bullet heads and load your own!

cobra · Mar 3, 2012

Drew are you shooting off sand bags,ect to hold rifle steady? Eliminates any operator error when evaluating ammo. Just in case

Drew1340 · Mar 4, 2012

not off sand bags, but a decent rest on a bench... it has proven decent enough to evaluate other rifles I have.... I will take out some Zmax and some tulammo some silver bear and some hornady steel match if i can find it.. and see how that works... if I find a bag I may snag one just for added insurance... its a gun I just dont shoot often as I have not had much luck with the AK platform where as my AR's have mostly come out of the box shittin and gettin with no problems...

cobra · Mar 4, 2012

A problem I had when useing my bench rest was the magazine.
The long magazines would hit the bench before the barrel came to rest.
A shorter 10 round mag can help if bench resting to evaluate ammo

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