New commander at lic.division

Doctor_M · Sep 16, 2015

If he is good enough for Jack... that's good enough for me. I wish him well in his new post and look forward to some fence mending between the licensing division and the shooting community. Mutual support and mutual respect would be a great place to land.

montoya32 · Sep 16, 2015

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beretta_maven · Sep 22, 2015

md_rick_o said:
There is a saying with government types, Promoted to the level of their incompetence.

That is, by definition, is the Peter Principle.

ComeGet · Sep 22, 2015

beretta_maven said:
That is, by definition, the Peter Principle.

Then, there's the Dilbert Principle: promoting the least competent people into management positions where they can do the least damage.

emnsb · Sep 22, 2015

Doctor_M said:
If he is good enough for Jack... that's good enough for me. I wish him well in his new post and look forward to some fence mending between the licensing division and the shooting community. Mutual support and mutual respect would be a great place to land.

To be fair though it took Jack prematurely ending his career to speak out about the injustice in Maryland, and even when he was at MSP he was powerless to do anything. They could resurrect Charlton Heston himself and make him the licensing division commander, nothing would change.

DubTap21 · Sep 23, 2015

Doctor_M said:
If he is good enough for Jack... that's good enough for me. I wish him well in his new post and look forward to some fence mending between the licensing division and the shooting community. Mutual support and mutual respect would be a great place to land.

Agreed

Minuteman · Sep 23, 2015

If I could speak to the new commander of the licensing division I would say:

1) Putting restrictions on Wear and Carry permits is a bad idea; no more.

2) When FSA2013 (SB281) passed, the requirement to fire a round was specifically negotiated and deleted from the law. Someone put it back in the Comar, hopefully it was just a mistake and not unethical as it appears.

3) Retired Troopers get special treatment, with regard to getting a Wear and Carry permit; even better than other retired LEOs, this situation needs to be reviewed.

4) Thanks to licensing division for finally making an SOP so everyone now knows what qualifies for permit and how to navigate the process.

5) Things are changing for the better in Maryland, just like the rest of the country. Thank you for your service and dedication to our great state. If Jack says you are the right person for the job, you have my support.

Schipperke · Sep 23, 2015

Minuteman said:
If I could speak to the new commander of the licensing division I would say:

1) Putting restrictions on Wear and Carry permits is a bad idea; no more.

2) When FSA2013 (SB281) passed, the requirement to fire a round was specifically negotiated and deleted from the law. Someone put it back in the Comar, hopefully it was just a mistake and not unethical as it appears.

3) Retired Troopers get special treatment, with regard to getting a Wear and Carry permit; even better than other retired LEOs, this situation needs to be reviewed.

4) Thanks to licensing division for finally making an SOP so everyone now knows what qualifies for permit and how to navigate the process.

5) Things are changing for the better in Maryland, just like the rest of the country. Thank you for your service and dedication to our great state. If Jack says you are the right person for the job, you have my support.

How many states do that?

Minuteman · Sep 23, 2015

Schipperke said:
How many states do that?

Good question. I just emailed Steve and Gary at http://www.handgunlaw.us

Let me know if you find something first.

Jaybeez · Sep 23, 2015

Schipperke said:
How many states do that?

a majority of states have tpm restrictions, but usually they are uniform to all permit holders.

im torn on the issue. supposing permits get much less burdensome to aquire in the next 6 months, would certain restrictions do us more good than harm?

remember, the md permit doesnt require concealed carry, it can be open too. will the md equivalent of open carry texas hurt concealed carry in md, or provide dems in the ga motivation to compromise on something better?

Minuteman · Sep 23, 2015

Restrictions make no sense.

Think about it. Here's what a restriction says:

We trust you to carry a gun in public, as much as anyone else we trust, because you fought through all the red tape, you took training, passed a thorough back ground check which included interviews, finger prints/photo, checking of many databases; geez we trust you already, here take this card and stay safe out there! But wait. You can only carry between 5am-9am and 4pm-7pm, to and from work and only if you are making cash deposits or on company business, during the week, unless you have to work on a holiday, or have a temp job, as long as it's on the books and ...

That's reason #1 - it's stupid to 'sometimes' trust someone. They either qualify, or not, period.

Reason #2 - everyone who has restrictions is either confused by them, or is in a constant state of delima about when, where, and if they are legal or not. It creates a condition of ambiguity where you force good people to sometimes stretch the truth ("I'm always working" I hear a lot). And the awkward position you put on police officers to have to field adjudicate if the permit holder is within the scope of their 'restriction'.

Reason #3 - instead of just losing your permit if not technically following some else's subjective opinion about the scope of your permit; you can actually be charged.

Reason #4 - restrictions have been given arbitrarily. I know three people in the exact same situation, one has restrictions, the other does not, and a third has different restrictions.

Reason #5 - lawsuits. Your honor, my client has a MDSP approved Wear and Carry permit, but was not permitted to carry at the time he was injured by the perp because of an arbitrary and capricious 'restriction'.

Bart_man · Sep 23, 2015

Jack McCauley said:
He is a great asset to those who are looking for the Change Maryland promise.

That statement is almost pornographic in its effect.

N3YMY · Sep 23, 2015

ComeGet said:
Then, there's the Dilbert Principle: promoting the least competent people into management positions where they can do the most damage.

FTFY

pilotguy299 · Sep 23, 2015

Minuteman said:
...

3) Retired Troopers get special treatment, with regard to getting a Wear and Carry permit; even better than other retired LEOs, this situation needs to be reviewed.

....

How so?

I was talking with someone the other day who should have a fair idea of the process, and from what I was told I didn't get that impression.

SOP 29-14-03
Maryland Law Enforcement Officers-Active, Former and Retired

http://www.mdsp.org/Document Downloads/Handgun.pdf

Minuteman · Sep 23, 2015

pilotguy299 said:
How so?

I was talking with someone the other day who should have a fair idea of the process, and from what I was told I didn't get that impression.

SOP 29-14-03
Maryland Law Enforcement Officers-Active, Former and Retired

http://www.mdsp.org/Document Downloads/Handgun.pdf

Fair question, let me ask you one too. Are you affiliated in any way with the MDSP?

I have known several retired police officers that have (in the past) received 'the run around', some have been told that they served too long ago to qualify, or that their department was so far from Maryland, etc. Retired MDSP troopers are rubber stamped permits (unless there was a departmental issue that could disqualify them). I have not read the new SOP yet, hoping things are already moving in the right direction.

pilotguy299 · Sep 24, 2015

Minuteman said:
Fair question, let me ask you one too. Are you affiliated in any way with the MDSP?

I have known several retired police officers that have (in the past) received 'the run around', some have been told that they served too long ago to qualify, or that their department was so far from Maryland, etc. Retired MDSP troopers are rubber stamped permits (unless there was a departmental issue that could disqualify them). I have not read the new SOP yet, hoping things are already moving in the right direction.

No I am not. But I was speaking with someone with them just this week about this topic.

I was told that any LEO who waited a few years before applying, was denied and told to go get LEOSA qualified. This included those who retired from MDSP. After getting LEOSA qualified, whether they can reapply and then be considered was not really clear.

Now the outside of Maryland thing is correct, and is mentioned in the policy I linked to in the previous post. And I was told that it even applies to LEOs who worked just over the state line, or in DC. I was also told that they will still consider those applications if G&S can be well indicated as part of the application, but it is not quite as easy as for LEOs who worked in Maryland.

Personally I think that is a bit short sighted. But in reality I don't believe that the MD permit gives any more protection than LEOSA does for retirees. Neither seems to let them carry in certain "prohibited" areas.

The only difference that I was told of and is mentioned in the policy linked to, is that troopers do not need to provide a letter stating that they retired in good standing, as the licensing division can verify that themselves.

erwos · Sep 24, 2015

Minuteman said:
If I could speak to the new commander of the licensing division I would say:

1) Putting restrictions on Wear and Carry permits is a bad idea; no more.

2) When FSA2013 (SB281) passed, the requirement to fire a round was specifically negotiated and deleted from the law. Someone put it back in the Comar, hopefully it was just a mistake and not unethical as it appears.

3) Retired Troopers get special treatment, with regard to getting a Wear and Carry permit; even better than other retired LEOs, this situation needs to be reviewed.

4) Thanks to licensing division for finally making an SOP so everyone now knows what qualifies for permit and how to navigate the process.

5) Things are changing for the better in Maryland, just like the rest of the country. Thank you for your service and dedication to our great state. If Jack says you are the right person for the job, you have my support.

It's interesting to me how fixated some people are on carry. While I certainly don't object to any of the above, I'd argue that the most immediate relief needed is for dealers and "prohibited" firearms - that is to say, we need much more lenient interpretations of what's banned or not. That is a particular genie that a future AG or MSP commander will have difficulty putting back in the box, which is why we need it out ASAP.

Jaybeez · Sep 24, 2015

erwos said:
It's interesting to me how fixated some people are on carry. While I certainly don't object to any of the above, I'd argue that the most immediate relief needed is for dealers and "prohibited" firearms - that is to say, we need much more lenient interpretations of what's banned or not. That is a particular genie that a future AG or MSP commander will have difficulty putting back in the box, which is why we need it out ASAP.

that comes after its no longer in court.

Minuteman · Sep 24, 2015

pilotguy299 said:
No I am not. But I was speaking with someone with them just this week about this topic.

I was told that any LEO who waited a few years before applying, was denied and told to go get LEOSA qualified. This included those who retired from MDSP. After getting LEOSA qualified, whether they can reapply and then be considered was not really clear.

Now the outside of Maryland thing is correct, and is mentioned in the policy I linked to in the previous post. And I was told that it even applies to LEOs who worked just over the state line, or in DC. I was also told that they will still consider those applications if G&S can be well indicated as part of the application, but it is not quite as easy as for LEOs who worked in Maryland.

Personally I think that is a bit short sighted. But in reality I don't believe that the MD permit gives any more protection than LEOSA does for retirees. Neither seems to let them carry in certain "prohibited" areas.

The only difference that I was told of and is mentioned in the policy linked to, is that troopers do not need to provide a letter stating that they retired in good standing, as the licensing division can verify that themselves.

Very insightful comments, thanks. My in is a couple years old, we are on the same sheet of music. It's really unfortunate that even retired police have such difficulty, shows the state of affairs. I thought it was a slam-dunk for retired Troopers. This being the case, I would think there would be more of them helping us move the bar a little more to the right.

I asked if you had affiliation, helps me better assess your info (you are solid), and secondly, several years ago I met a helio pilot, he changed his username, and I haven't seen him in a long time; I believe he flew for the MDSP, thought you might have been him.

Minuteman · Sep 24, 2015

erwos said:
It's interesting to me how fixated some people are on carry. While I certainly don't object to any of the above, I'd argue that the most immediate relief needed is for dealers and "prohibited" firearms - that is to say, we need much more lenient interpretations of what's banned or not. That is a particular genie that a future AG or MSP commander will have difficulty putting back in the box, which is why we need it out ASAP.

Eros, sir. My comments were focused on the carry conundrum because my hypothetical comments were for the new commander of the handgun licensing division. I'd be barking up the wrong tree if I was hoping to get a change to the 'assault' weapons ban. Besides, I do feel more trained, law-abiding citizens with CCW would have a better deterrent effect and make us safer as a society. I agree with you, just trying to say CCW is a higher priority than rifles at this point.

New commander at lic.division

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