Churches during these trying times

EL1227 · Jul 17, 2015

Nnztg8r said:
That's awesome. Makes me want to hear a couple of his sermons.

Next up ... Sermon on the Mount with special emphasis on Matthew 5:9

Traveler · Jul 17, 2015

SCDoGo said:
You would find a similar sentiment in James 2:14-26, i.e. "faith without works is dead."

Not the same sentiment in my opinion. God gives us strength to do His work. The notion of helping yourself starts off on the wrong foot I believe. That said, you would be silly to pray for work, but not put in any job applications.

T-Man · Jul 17, 2015

Traveler said:
Not the same sentiment in my opinion. God gives us strength to do His work. The notion of helping yourself starts off on the wrong foot I believe. That said, you would be silly to pray for work, but not put in any job applications.

Agreed. A living faith produces works, but even the faith itself is a gift from God so that no one can boast.

Ephesians 2
…8For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

Allium · Jul 17, 2015

Ezekiel 33 "... 6 'But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet, and the people are not warned, and a sword comes and takes a person from them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood I will require from the watchman's hand.'

Deuteronomy 22:8, if someone falls from your roof, and you failed to install a safety fence around the edge, you would be held liable for the death of that person. Likewise, in Exodus 21:29-31, if a man has an ox which is prone to harm people, the owner is held liable if he fails to confine it and the ox harms or kills others. If the ox harms someone, the negligent owner is fined. If the ox kills someone, the negligent owner is to be put to death.

The principle could hardly be stated more forcefully: you must protect your life and the lives of others.

Exodus 22:2-3 2 "If the thief is found breaking in, and he is struck so that he dies, there shall be no guilt for his bloodshed. 3 "If the sun has risen on him, there shall be guilt for his bloodshed.

sther 8:11-12 11 By these letters the king permitted the Jews who were in every city to gather together and protect their lives -- to destroy, kill, and annihilate all the forces of any people or province that would assault them, both little children and women, and to plunder their possessions...

Psalm 144:1 Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight:

Psalm 18:34 He teaches my hands to make war, So that my arms can bend a bow of bronze

So several Old Test verses, google foo didnt find mant new test other than the Garden verses. So there is support for self protection though there are as many interpretations for as against. Basically I say its up to you and your version of your god regardless of how it is.

protegeV · Jul 17, 2015

clandestine said:
I treat a church the same way I would a business. If they don't have armed security and refuse to allow me to carry, I don't go.

you're welcome at our church then. My wife is part of the armed security

clandestine · Jul 17, 2015

protegeV said:
you're welcome at our church then. My wife is part of the armed security

Very nice

protegeV · Jul 17, 2015

clandestine said:
Very nice

Question for ya. Say you wanted to carry in church. Would you notify the security team? I ask because I mentioned it to my wife and she said they don't have a problem as lomg as ypu let them know. Obviously if carrying concealed properly no one would know but If, God forbid, something came up and you were to draw your weapon and hadn't notified anyone, they wouldn't know if you were a bad guy or not.

clandestine · Jul 17, 2015

protegeV said:
Question for ya. Say you wanted to carry in church. Would you notify the security team? I ask because I mentioned it to my wife and she said they don't have a problem as lomg as ypu let them know. Obviously if carrying concealed properly no one would know but If, God forbid, something came up and you were to draw your weapon and hadn't notified anyone, they wouldn't know if you were a bad guy or not.

If they have a security team, yes. I would inform them. I agree with your thinking as well. I have been trained by my retired L.E. friend on how to best handle the scenario, even then, there is no guarantee one won't take "friendly fire".

It's a crap sandwich to use force without a uniform on. You can be mistaken as a bad guy.

protegeV · Jul 17, 2015

clandestine said:
It's a crap sandwich to use force without a uniform on. You can be mistaken as a bad guy.

Got that right. My wife is always plainclothes. Obviously everyone there knows her though. Still, she is not on the "front line" so to speak. She's the only female officer and was specifically chosen to be able to deal with sensitive situations that may arise with a female.

MDFF2008 · Jul 18, 2015

Couldn't the church just allow carry on it's property? In the same way a buisness can allow employees to carry?

protegeV · Jul 18, 2015

gprimr1 said:
Couldn't the church just allow carry on it's property? In the same way a buisness can allow employees to carry?

Yeah, they could. It depends on the locale. In a 2a friendly state it'd probably be a given. In MD it would depend on if they had their own security or if they just granted permission to the congregation. Like Chad I were discussing, mixing up who's good/bad and all

Andras · Jul 26, 2015

'Management employees' still don't have the right to transport a handgun from home to a place of employment. Only the owner or holder of the lease can transport a handgun from home to the place they own or lease.

exceptions:

(3) the carrying of a handgun on the person or in a vehicle while the person is transporting the handgun to or from the place of legal purchase or sale, or to or from a bona fide repair shop, or between bona fide residences of the person, or between the bona fide residence and place of business of the person, if the business is operated and owned substantially by the person if each handgun is unloaded and carried in an enclosed case or an enclosed holster;

(7) the wearing, carrying, or transporting of a handgun by a supervisory employee:

(i) in the course of employment;

(ii) within the confines of the business establishment in which the supervisory employee is employed; and

(iii) when so authorized by the owner or manager of the business establishment; or

paperwork351 · Jul 26, 2015

Montgomery County
Sec. 57-11. Firearms in or near places of public assembly.
(a) A person must not sell, transfer, possess, or transport a handgun, rifle, or shotgun, or ammunition for these firearms, in or within 100 yards of a place of public assembly.

We have the County victim seal of approval. You are entitled to a criminal. If you do not have one, one will be released for you.

Pray hard, pray often.

pbharvey · Jul 28, 2015

pro-second-amendment-pastor-shoots-church-intruder

gamer_jim · Jul 28, 2015

pbharvey said:
pro-second-amendment-pastor-shoots-church-intruder

That pastor needs to get out to the range more.

cms1528 · Jul 28, 2015

http://www.carlchinn.com/Church_Security_Concepts.html

Go here and read up on deadly church incidents and statistics, 11 so far this year.

Churches during these trying times

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