Need help with legality of VEPR 7.62x39

Vile Shadow · Aug 16, 2014

Pinecone said:
Just checking.

No problem. I don't know everything about firearms law, but I do know that. :lol2:

And we still have people showing up thinking they can just go across the border and buy a banned firearm.

Then I guess they, along with the dealer, will have to go the way of Thunderstick Ent. :sad20:

ARenthusiast · Aug 16, 2014

I guess if the company doesn't get a yes from the state I'll have to wait until I move to Florida in November. I'm looking forward to getting an official answer from the state or the ATF. I'll keep you guys posted and upload the letter or email.

Either way, I got a hell of a deal on a rifle that may or may not be available in the future. Just might have to wait a few months. F'ing Maryland! Can't wait to leave!

honda53s · Aug 16, 2014

Sling Blade said:
I didn't fall off the turnip truck yesterday.

I think you fell off your "Big Rig Wrecker" and bumped your head. :lol2:

Vile Shadow · Aug 16, 2014

honda53s said:
I think you fell off your "Big Rig Wrecker" and bumped your head.

That's okay. I have a pretty hard head. :lol2:

Markp · Aug 16, 2014

NateIU10 said:
What is an Avtomat Kalashnikov rifle in any form? That is certainly broader than the default "copy". I disagree with how that letter is being interpreted, and there is no way, in my opinion, that a 54r VEPR is legal in MD. There was a court of special appeals case where a person was found to be in possession of a regulated firearm when he was caught with a sporter MAADI.

Unfortunately, this is correct... the VEPR will not be legal under any circumstances. Go buy yourself something nice, like an SG-43 or an RPD.

Mark

TheDevilHimself · Aug 18, 2014

NateIU10 said:
What is an Avtomat Kalashnikov rifle in any form? That is certainly broader than the default "copy". I disagree with how that letter is being interpreted, and there is no way, in my opinion, that a 54r VEPR is legal in MD. There was a court of special appeals case where a person was found to be in possession of a regulated firearm when he was caught with a sporter MAADI.

I respect your opinion, Nate, and I agree that "Avtomat Kalashnikov rifle in any form" casts a relatively large net. However, the Avtomat Kalashnikov is still a specific type of rifle. There are many points I need to address, but I will have to be somewhat brief at the moment.

The Avtomat Kalashnikov was originally a 7.62x39 rifle. In the 1970s, the 5.45x39 was introduced; the 5.56x45 arrived in the 1990s.
There is no such animal as an Avtomat Kalashnikov is 7.62x54. Attempting to transform a 7.62x54 Vepr into an Avtomat Kalashnikov would require an
extensive redesign & remanufacturing of the entire rifle.

More importantly, the Avtomat Kalashnikov is banned from import into the United States. While the federal definition of "assault weapon" no longer exists in statute, it is still used to determine whether a firearm is eligible for import under the "sporting purposes" section of the 1968 GCA. The import ban on the Avtomat Kalashnikov began in 1989, and was further refined under Clinton in 94, 96, & 98.

Remanufacturing a 7.62x39, 5.45x39, or 5.56 Saiga, Vepr, or other rifle into any form of Avtomat Kalashnikov requires permanent modifications to the firearm, triggers 922R compliance, and is illegal in Maryland. If any of these rifles were truly an Avtomat Kalashnikov, they would be banned from both US import as well as sale in MD.

Abacab · Aug 18, 2014

NateIU10 said:
What is an Avtomat Kalashnikov rifle in any form? That is certainly broader than the default "copy". I disagree with how that letter is being interpreted, and there is no way, in my opinion, that a 54r VEPR is legal in MD. There was a court of special appeals case where a person was found to be in possession of a regulated firearm when he was caught with a sporter MAADI.

How would you interpret 96-1 differently than the approach Duffy's (and maybe others) is taking?

erwos · Aug 18, 2014

Abacab said:
How would you interpret 96-1 differently than the approach Duffy's (and maybe others) is taking?

Many of us believe that 96-1 would not be a useful legal defense if the AG or MSP decided to ignore it. The claims it makes are nowhere in existing law.

c4snipar · Aug 19, 2014

rob-cubed said:
This.

In cases where I have had a disagreement with an out-of-state seller over legality--and MD laws are confusing--have the seller call the local FFL of your choice who will be doing the transfer. An FFL in MD can still receive any rifle, any capacity magazine, etc., as a dealer. And then it's that FFL's liability to release it to you. The seller is worried about liability, or having the rifle sent back, but if the FFL says it's OK then they have nothing to worry about.

You've taked to Vince already, he's a great guy, call him again to discuss whether he's willing to do the xfer and be happy.

If FFL transferred the Vepr to you or a local gun store sold you the vepr in MD, but later turn out to be banned, then are you liable for anything as far as possibly charged with a possession of banned firearm?

c4snipar · Aug 19, 2014

NateIU10 said:
What is an Avtomat Kalashnikov rifle in any form? That is certainly broader than the default "copy". I disagree with how that letter is being interpreted, and there is no way, in my opinion, that a 54r VEPR is legal in MD. There was a court of special appeals case where a person was found to be in possession of a regulated firearm when he was caught with a sporter MAADI.

as much as I love to own a Vepr like many others, I would not comfortable of getting it till it's 100% CLEAR that is not banned like the VZ2008, which clearly listed on the site that is NOT banned and I got it

. No offense to the people here say that is legal, but just my opinion.

rico903 · Aug 19, 2014

Where are you located? If near PA call The Gun Bunker and see if they are OK with transferring it. They are pretty up on MD laws but every once in awhile they get bad info from one of the MD FFLs they consult with, like The Bank and Blue Fins. Both of who told them my Colt 5951 MM was not legal. Got it straitened out though. God guys to deal with. They are in Shrewsbury, first exit off 83.

Abacab · Aug 19, 2014

Which model Colt was that?

Atlantic Firearms.com · Aug 19, 2014

Who is the importer ? If we know them we will be glad to call and help clear it up for you. You are welcome to email us sales@atlanticfirearms.com

rico903 · Aug 20, 2014

Abacab said:
Which model Colt was that?

6951, typo

rob-cubed · Aug 20, 2014

c4snipar said:
If FFL transferred the Vepr to you or a local gun store sold you the vepr in MD, but later turn out to be banned, then are you liable for anything as far as possibly charged with a possession of banned firearm?

My .02 is liability is primarily on the FFL whose job it is to know what can be sold in MD.

Before the ban, people on this forum regularly argued the legality of Saiga-12s or Saigas rifles or VZs as long arms... some dealers sold them cash and carry, most did not. MSP was more than happy to provide ambiguous or conflicting answers and allow FFLs to restrict themselves. I am not aware of a single FFL who got their hand slapped for reading the law and doing what they thought was right.

So I am happy to buy what I can, while I can, and especially from dealers who are willing to challenge the gray area of legality. They deserve my money.

embermage · Aug 20, 2014

johnhmpg said:
Yes for any non-banned rifle. Handgun no.

Glad Colorado got rid of their adjecent state law on long guns. Now I can use my Colorado license and address to buy long guns in PA

.

AssMan · Aug 20, 2014

rob-cubed said:
My .02 is liability is primarily on the FFL whose job it is to know what can be sold in MD.

Before the ban, people on this forum regularly argued the legality of Saiga-12s or Saigas rifles or VZs as long arms... some dealers sold them cash and carry, most did not. MSP was more than happy to provide ambiguous or conflicting answers and allow FFLs to restrict themselves. I am not aware of a single FFL who got their hand slapped for reading the law and doing what they thought was right.

So I am happy to buy what I can, while I can, and especially from dealers who are willing to challenge the gray area of legality. They deserve my money.

X2

Pinecone · Aug 21, 2014

embermage said:
Glad Colorado got rid of their adjecent state law on long guns. Now I can use my Colorado license and address to buy long guns in PA .

Was theirs ONLY adjacent states?

Most states (all except DE) had adjacent state laws due to GCA 1968 requiring the states to allow adjacent state purchases of long guns. But FOPA 1986 removed the adjacent state limitations and the need for state laws addressing this.

MD law still has the adjacent state clause, but only in that it allows purchases in adjacent states, not ONLY in adjacent states.

I had never heard of a state with a limitation to only adjacent states.

Although, if you are living and working in MD or PA more than half the year, and are not active duty military or full time student, you are in violation of residency laws. You are a resident of where you actually reside, not where you want to be a resident of (unless active duty military or full time student).

embermage · Aug 21, 2014

Pinecone said:
Was theirs ONLY adjacent states?

QUOTE]

Yes, Colorado had a law on the books preventing a Colorado resident from buying long guns in states not adjacent to Colorado. So for example I could buy in Kansas, but not in Missouri. The Colorado Legislature passed a bill removing that law, and the Governor signed it (not that the Democrats had much choice, they burned alot of bridges last year in Colorado and were trying to get people to forget that, we haven't) and the law went into effect 1 August 2014.
Now I am also Active Duty and stationed here in MD, but I am still a resident of Colorado (Driver's License, Voting registration, property taxes are Colorado, and in particular El Paso county). In theory I could use my Colorado ID now to buy in long guns in PA, DE, or VA. I just could not bring any banned long guns I purchased into the state. Which is fine, I already have weapons stored in PA in a secure location. I would just add those to them.

embermage · Aug 21, 2014

Went and found a link on NRA-ILA about the bill

http://www.nraila.org/legislation/s...-shotgun-purchases-sales-signed-into-law.aspx

Need help with legality of VEPR 7.62x39

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