Scope Suggestions

ar15dave · Oct 9, 2015

I am looking at getting a Remington 700 AAC SD in 308. I would like to get a good scope for it but not sure the size. What variable or magnification should I be looking at.

Feature wise I would like it to have open knob turrets for adjusting windage and elevation.

Not wanting to spend too much, stay under $1K hopefully, but want something that will optimize the se of the 308 round.

Thanks in advance,

Dave

iH8DemLibz · Oct 9, 2015

So whatcha use'in it fer?

ashershapiro · Oct 9, 2015

How far out are you trying to reach? Vortex has some good mid level scopes with FFP for under $1000.

http://www.amazon.com/Vortex-Viper-6-24x50-FFP-Riflescope/dp/B00PSKZ7WI

erwos · Oct 9, 2015

Yeah, distance or at least max magnification is kind of key to giving you a suggestion.

BDC or no BDC?

ar15dave · Oct 9, 2015

iH8DemLibz said:
So whatcha use'in it fer?

Zombies, shooting zombies :innocent0

Actually, competing in Long range (sniper style) competitions. This is for fun. Something of a challenge.

Dave

ar15dave · Oct 9, 2015

ashershapiro said:
How far out are you trying to reach? Vortex has some good mid level scopes with FFP for under $1000.

http://www.amazon.com/Vortex-Viper-6-24x50-FFP-Riflescope/dp/B00PSKZ7WI

Trying for say 100- 300 yards I guess. Still looking into the competitions I would be entering. Most targets vary in that range. Start close and work their way out.

Dave

Hit and Run · Oct 9, 2015

ashershapiro said:
How far out are you trying to reach? Vortex has some good mid level scopes with FFP for under $1000.

http://www.amazon.com/Vortex-Viper-6-24x50-FFP-Riflescope/dp/B00PSKZ7WI

Have had Leupold, Nixon and Vortex. For the money and quality, like Vortex. :lol:

iH8DemLibz · Oct 9, 2015

erwos said:
Yeah, distance or at least max magnification is kind of key to giving you a suggestion.

BDC or no BDC?

BDC is a gimmick.

The parameters built into a BDC scope can only be used with one set of ballistics based one particular cartridge.

Change anything about the cartridge and the BDC is worthless. Powder charge, bullet weight, bullet shape, velocity, etc.

Without knowing what exact cartridge the scope was designed around, best to avoid BDC.

ar15dave · Oct 9, 2015

Hit and Run said:
Have had Leupold, Nixon and Vortex. For the money and quality, like Vortex.

I have a Vortex Prism scope and I am not too happy with it. I have a couple of Burris Prism Scopes and like those. But, those are for other AR uppers. This would be for a Remington 700 AAC SD.

I am looking for what Power range I should consider taking into account the distance and general cartridge I would be using (308 at 100-300yds)

Dave

erwos · Oct 9, 2015

iH8DemLibz said:
BDC is a gimmick.

So, basically, you know nothing about how to effectively use BDC, so BDC sucks. The problem is not BDC, it's your own ignorance.

You just need a dope card for your load... you know, like all the mil guys use. I can plug a load and a reticle into Strelok Pro, and I can tell you where those BDC marks go for pretty much anything.

MRA · Oct 9, 2015

Vortex is a great option but remember that have scopes of different qualities - Viper, Diamondback, etc.

Sightron has had good reviews too. I've looked through them but never actually use one. The only person I know that has one swears by it.

aethyr · Oct 9, 2015

I have the above proposed setup, its wonderful!

badger ordnance 20moa rail and rings

I am eyeing up the magpul stock, I sure would like to use box mags.

iH8DemLibz · Oct 9, 2015

erwos said:
So, basically, you know nothing about how to effectively use BDC, so BDC sucks. The problem is not BDC, it's your own ignorance.

You just need a dope card for your load... you know, like all the mil guys use. I can plug a load and a reticle into Strelok Pro, and I can tell you where those BDC marks go for pretty much anything.

My ignorance aside.

If the BDC marks within the scope are fixed points, how are different cartridges going to work?

Within the scope, the drop from 100 yards to 200 is a fixed amount. So you're saying the same scope will produce the same drop in inches regardless of cartridge used?

To use an extreme comparison, is a 405 grain 45-70 going 1,300 fps the same as a 60 grain 243 going 3,800 fps? Of course it's not. And that's the point I'm trying to make. Guys are buying these things and sticking them on all caliber of firearms.

And when you say: Dope card for "Your" load, you're making my point. A scope can only be set-up for "Your" load. A load. One load. Change the load and the dope card goes out the window.

If a BDC scope is set-up for 7.62 NATO or 5.56 NATO, I can see the BDC working. But most guys are going to try and find the best cartridge for their particular rifle. At which point it's set it and forget it. And the BDC will never get used.

As for your computer programs, I'm sure that can work too. But only one guy in 5,000 is going to be using that kind of equipment. And they won't be carrying dope cards.

All I'm saying is BDC is being sold by every scope maker now. Because it sounds cool. Another catchy trio of alphabets. But 97.3% of shooters will never utilize the technology.

94hokie · Oct 9, 2015

iH8DemLibz said:
My ignorance aside.

If the BDC marks within the scope are fixed points, how are different cartridges going to work?

Within the scope, the drop from 100 yards to 200 is a fixed amount. So you're saying the same scope will produce the same drop in inches regardless of cartridge used?

To use an extreme comparison, is a 405 grain 45-70 going 1,300 fps the same as a 60 grain 243 going 3,800 fps? Of course it's not. And that's the point I'm trying to make. Guys are buying these things and sticking them on all caliber of firearms.

And when you say: Dope card for "Your" load, you're making my point. A scope can only be set-up for "Your" load. A load. One load. Change the load and the dope card goes out the window.

If a BDC scope is set-up for 7.62 NATO or 5.56 NATO, I can see the BDC working. But most guys are going to try and find the best cartridge for their particular rifle. At which point it's set it and forget it. And the BDC will never get used.

As for your computer programs, I'm sure that can work too. But only one guy in 5,000 is going to be using that kind of equipment. And they won't be carrying dope cards.

All I'm saying is BDC is being sold by every scope maker now. Because it sounds cool. Another catchy trio of alphabets. But 97.3% of shooters will never utilize the technology.

BDC works on the premise that the marks may be fixed, but as you change the power of the zoom, the actual distance at the target for each mark changes. Most manufacturers have simple programs on their websites or even phone apps where you can enter your load data and it will tell you at what distance each mark will hit at a particular zoom power, or it can tell you at what zoom to set so that each mark will be as close as possible to being at 100, 200, 300, etc.

ironpony · Oct 9, 2015

Is the BDC idea similar to having a custom turret made for a non-BDC scope?

Would love some articles or info on trajectories related to scopes (FFP) and the like!

erwos · Oct 9, 2015

iH8DemLibz said:
If the BDC marks within the scope are fixed points, how are different cartridges going to work?

Because I know where those fixed points are in the reticle, and therefore can calculate how my load behaves with them at a particular zero.

Within the scope, the drop from 100 yards to 200 is a fixed amount.

This is the key mistake you're making. There are marks on the scope that, for example, will basically line up to 100m and 200m with a 50m zero when using M855. That does not make the marks useless with a different load, but I do need to understand what those marks mean with that load. What you also seem to not grasp is that this is simple math, and basically a solved problem. In fact, it is not even a problem too dissimilar from figuring out those mil markings.

So you're saying the same scope will produce the same drop in inches regardless of cartridge used?

Duh, of course not.

And when you say: Dope card for "Your" load, you're making my point. A scope can only be set-up for "Your" load. A load. One load. Change the load and the dope card goes out the window.

This is the SAME EXACT SITUATION FOR NON-BDC scopes. Vanishingly few people with mil scopes are doing all the math in their head in the real world. Pretty much everyone uses a dope card, which is load-specific.

As for your computer programs, I'm sure that can work too. But only one guy in 5,000 is going to be using that kind of equipment. And they won't be carrying dope cards.

It's a $5 program on an Android phone. It's not high technology. You can pre-program it for anything you're shooting, too.

All I'm saying is BDC is being sold by every scope maker now. Because it sounds cool. Another catchy trio of alphabets. But 97.3% of shooters will never utilize the technology.

99% of shooters will never be able to use mil properly without assistance, so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

ar15dave · Oct 9, 2015

So, would a 6-24x or an 8-32x around 50mm be a good type to look for? Or something bigger? This is for 100-300yd range for 308 cartridge.

Dave

erwos · Oct 9, 2015

I feel like 32x is overkill for 300yds.

jimbobborg · Oct 9, 2015

erwos said:
I feel like 32x is overkill for 300yds.

I'm in agreement on this. For 300 and under, you really don't need more than 12x unless you're a competition bench rest shooter.

jimbobborg · Oct 9, 2015

I'm going to extrapolate a little on what I posted above. Unless you're shooting competition bench rest, where you're trying to shoot 0.1" groups at 200 yards, you aren't going to need a high-power scope. For man sized targets, the general rule of thumb is 1x per 100 yards.

Just an FYI, I use a 2-8x scope on my SPR. I don't have problems ringing steel at 500 yards with it.

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