Going to Submit Form 1 with a Trust (SBR)/Worth it?

I have a lower pre Oct 1...I cant get a clear answer of weather or not I will be able to SBR it.

So I will let everyone know the status' as I recieve them. Also hoping I can help any googler's

Anyones input (rumor or not) is very much appreciated


PS
I cant believe SB281 actually passed...for shame MD!

There is an entire thread about the status of SBRs:
http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=129702

We are all just spitballing, speculating, not sure. So take the comments in that thread with a grain of salt

We don't know. Theoretically, assembling a grandfathered lower into a banned configuration should be possible that just *makes* sense. Maryland and/or the ATF may see it differently. We will not know until people try and get their paperwork back.

Please try! Worst case scenario you're stuck with an AR-15 pistol.

Yes, it will take less time and cost about the same as going the individual route (Fingerprints, Pictures, CLEO signoff).

I submitted my NFA paperwork using a trust around the 20th of September. They cashed the checks on 10/3, so they took my money. Hopefully in a year I can tell you if they let me have the stamps. My Tommy Gun and 9mm AR cant wait till the stamps come back.

This is not legal advice, and no attorney client relationship exists. If you want a real answer, pay an attorney:

Q: May a person SBR a now-banned platform that was owned prior to 10/01/2013?

In my opinion, yes, regardless of overall length. A Copycat, as defined in Maryland, is a semi-automatic centerfire rifle. This definition specifically excludes from copycat assault long guns and assault pistols. So, the copycat test will NOT bring into it any firearm that is now banned, previously regulated, as those are assault long guns and specifically excluded from copycat tests (features or 29" overall length.)

Now, a SBR is defined in Maryland law as a handgun. The definition of Handgun specifically states that any Handgun is NOT a rifle. Therefore, a SBR, regardless of OAL will not be a Copycat, as a copycat is a centerfire semi-automatic RIFLE. A handgun cannot be a rifle under Maryland law. Nothing in MD law prevents you from making a regulated firearm (now defined as solely handguns) as long as you are over 21 and not prohibited from possession (and if making the handgun, it need not be on the handgun roster. It will be interesting to see if Form 4 SBRs moving forward require the SBR to be on the handgun roster, have an internal lock, and shell casing but that's a different thread.)

Now, you also have Section 5-203 of MD Public Safety law that states possession of an SBR is legal in Maryland, as long as the SBR is registered under Federal law.

There is a possible issue we must ask ourselves; are we "manufacturing" a new banned firearm with application to make a firearm (SBR)? SB281 bans the possession, sale, offer to sell, transfer, purchase, or receipt of an assault weapon after 10/1/2013, unless already in possession or POd before that date. Now, we are already in possession of the assault weapon prior to that date. So, it is my opinion that that rifle may be made into a SBR legally, as you meet the exemption that a person who lawfully possessed, has a purchase order for, or completed an application to purchase an assault long gun or a copycat weapon before October 1, 2013, may possess and transport the assault long gun or copycat weapon. You are not manufacturing a new banned firearm, you are possessing the same firearm in a different form.

Now, Maryland does not recognize title to firearms owned by a trust. So, under state law, there is no transfer as the individual is still treated as owning the firearm, and it is my opinion that this means you still own it.

There is a bit of an oddity in the law however. The new law may ban SBRs that are of a banned platform NOT owned before 10/1/2013 based on the Assault Long Gun list. However, the Copycat test will NOT apply to any SBR (Handgun is not Rifle argument above). So, the 29" OAL test will not come into play for an SBR. However, the law likely outlaws rifles between 26" and less than 29" that are not SBRs. So, a non-banned platform that has a 16+" barrel, and an OAL between 26" and 29" would be a banned copycat.

ETA:
I also think it's interesting to think about the pistols on the list. There are AR Pistols on the list. Can those still be purchased? If yes, then you should be able to SBR that still and get an AR15 SBR completely after 10/1.

OP-

Truth is, there's no clear answer right now. There aren't any consequences for giving it a shot though.

Why not just keep it simple and submit it? At least that way you get the clock running on the 9+ months wait. Since you have a trust you can submit online; pretty painless, takes about 10 minutes your first time. Worst case, the answer ends up being no and your $200 is refunded.

just do it. worst case, the atf gives you back your money and you know it's time to move.

I very much disagree with some things you wrote.

NateIU10 said:

Now, you also have Section 5-203 of MD Public Safety law that states possession of an SBR is legal in Maryland, as long as the SBR is registered under Federal law.

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The law actually says that they're illegal unless you've got permission. That is not the same thing as saying that "you've got federal permission, they're legal no matter what".

NateIU10 said:

There is a bit of an oddity in the law however. The new law may ban SBRs that are of a banned platform NOT owned before 10/1/2013 based on the Assault Long Gun list. However, the Copycat test will NOT apply to any SBR (Handgun is not Rifle argument above). So, the 29" OAL test will not come into play for an SBR. However, the law likely outlaws rifles between 26" and less than 29" that are not SBRs. So, a non-banned platform that has a 16+" barrel, and an OAL between 26" and 29" would be a banned copycat.

Click to expand...

This is not what the MSP is telling people. They are explicitly saying that SBRs are subject to the copycat tests, including OAL. What's funnier is that you assert that SBRs can be copies of assault long guns - the MSP position before SB281 was precisely the opposite. I have no idea why they suddenly changed their tune.

NateIU10 said:

I also think it's interesting to think about the pistols on the list. There are AR Pistols on the list. Can those still be purchased? If yes, then you should be able to SBR that still and get an AR15 SBR completely after 10/1.

Click to expand...

You'd still wind up with an AR-15 rifle at the end, and since the MSP/AG seems to now believe AR-15 SBRs are copies of AR-15s... you'd be in possession of an assault long gun after 10/1 with no apparent grandfathering exemption (ie, go to jail). How you got there is basically unimportant.

Also, I'd caution that the BATFE accepting your form 1 does NOT necessarily mean you're good to go on building it. The BATFE only knows what's on the form. If you fail the copycat test, which the BATFE couldn't know, your SBR might be illegal anyways.

erwos said:

I very much disagree with some things you wrote.


The law actually says that they're illegal unless you've got permission. That is not the same thing as saying that "you've got federal permission, they're legal no matter what".

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I agree with you on this actually. I made the same point you state in a conversation recently after I posted and came down on the same side as you.

This is not what the MSP is telling people. They are explicitly saying that SBRs are subject to the copycat tests, including OAL. What's funnier is that you assert that SBRs can be copies of assault long guns - the MSP position before SB281 was precisely the opposite. I have no idea why they suddenly changed their tune.

Click to expand...

I am saying that there is no way SBRs can be subject to the test under the wording of the law. SBRs are handguns under Maryland law. Handguns do not include "Rifles" as defined. Copycat tests only apply to semi-automatic centerfire rifles.

I actually stated that if they wanted to, MSP could determine that banned platforms may not be made into SBRs. There is nothing in the law precluding the MSP from changing how they apply whether an ALG is an SBR. If they indeed state that ALGs cannot include SBRs, then I would be of the opinion that all SBRs are legal.

You'd still wind up with an AR-15 rifle at the end, and since the MSP/AG seems to now believe AR-15 SBRs are copies of AR-15s... you'd be in possession of an assault long gun after 10/1 with no apparent grandfathering exemption (ie, go to jail). How you got there is basically unimportant.

Click to expand...

That's my point though. You DO NOT end up with a rifle when you SBR something. You end up with a handgun under MD law. You go from handgun to handgun, and if the MSP does not ban ALGs that are SBRs based on platform (as you state they previously treated them) you would be legal.