How to safeguard firearms from a divorce in MD?

jpo183 · Jun 30, 2014

llkoolkeg said:
100% agreement here and I'm normally the one who rolls his eyes about self-help-type stuff. As a sidebar, though, I feel it necessary to disclose the underlying Christian message throughout which I personally agree with. Some folks, however, (and making no judgement relative to this particular case) are simply not ready or willing to hear ANYTHING with even a hint of Christianity attached. Others, like myself, were more willing to be open-minded about it...but only during my darkest hour. Unless something has transpired that irrevocably proves your mate is truly an unsalvageable person without even a shred of humanity intact, this may indeed be just such an appropriate hour and an opportunity for salvation may be at hand. My prayers go with the OP and his family and should he(you) decide to give jpo183's suggestion a whirl, PM me and I'll scrounge up a copy of both from my church, where my wife and I read and watched 'em in lieu of bible class on a couple Sundays past.

Even if you ignore the christianity part of this movie/book. I still believe this can save a marriage. Marriage is not "saved" or "lost" due to christianity, but to the commitment of each other. It is only lost when both parties give up. Even when "trust" is demolished, it still is up to both parties to continue on. Just because you can doesnt mean you should.

Best of luck.

On a side not, I would advise others in this thread to tread carefully. No one except the wife and the OP knows every detail. By universally condemning one party makes you a fool.

traveller · Jun 30, 2014

If you sell them below price after either of you files, it can become a 'fraudulent conveyance', something you want to stay away from. If you sell to a 'trustee' now, all she has a claim to are the couple of $$ in your bank account.

Biggfoot44 · Jun 30, 2014

If you think you can't afford a lawyer , you really can't afford to go thru this without a lawyer. (This presumes that you individually and jointly don't have a negative net worth , and that you have already concluded the marriage is past the point of no return.)

If no other option , sell the guns (other than one SD gun) , and use the procedes for the retainer on a lawyer.

mudskipper · Jun 30, 2014

Your marriage is over.

Don't try to save it, don't try to fight, don't go to counciling, don't do anything to try and put off the inevitable.

Just get out. Now. Go. Either you or her, whichever... but someone needs to leave.

You need to be separated for 366 days in order to even begin the divorce process in MD (insane law, BTW). The sooner you (or she) get outta there, the sooner you can file.

My ex and I didn't use lawyers - but our divorce was also the most amicable in the history of divorce, too. We were the exception. I doubt yours will go as smoothly, but you still need to get it started.

Apd09 · Jun 30, 2014

fabsroman said:
Then, there are the people that have kids thinking that a kid will save the marriage. They find out pretty quickly that kids only add additional stress to an already bad situation.

.

I'm sure we all know couples like that, if the relationships not working, get engaged. Still not working, go through with the marriage. Still on the rocks, buy a house and other materials items. When that fails, have a kid. Then be miserable, when breaking up 8 years ago, $500,000 richer, and not worrying about seeing your kids was the easiest and right thing to do.

Sent from a galaxy far, far, away....

traveller · Jun 30, 2014

I know one guy who came out of a divorce intact. When he knew it was over he waited for her to be out of town for a weekend, changed the locks and moved 1/2 of the furniture into an apartment he had rented for her. He had also taken her off signer status for the bank account. At the new place, she found the signed title for her car and a stack of hundreds that represented 1/2 of their combined net worth. She kicked and screamed for a while until she realized that there was nothing to get. The whole thing seemed a bit drastic at the time, but in the end they had an uncontested divorce and the only money they spent was on an agreement on how to divy up a pension benefit.

DaemonAssassin · Jun 30, 2014

Wow Sirex, sorry to hear about this. I'd take up mopar on his offer, if possible. If you need someplace else to store small stuff, let me know. I'm near Cresap and Jug Bridge Seafood/Monkey La La.

Vile Shadow · Jun 30, 2014

What about if the firearms were NOT purchased with a joint checking account, or credit card in both names, and the debt for said purchases is in one party's name?

rico903 · Jul 1, 2014

gungate said:
I know you mean well, but this is not good advice. If you and the OP actually did this and the divorce was contested once the judge saw what you guys did with the firearms he would simply count the property as still being owned by the OP and an asset. "So you sold your friend $10k worth of firearms for $50 is that right? uh huh, ok sure....".

He might let the sale stand but the OP would still be paying his ex as if this was community property. You can't hide assets and engage in monkey business like this and expect to get away with it.

How would she know what the guns were worth or even were? Doesn't sound like she's too up on them. Just "sell" them to a friend and put the money wherever you feel it should go. Do you know how many shoes and purses she has and what they are worth? If she just wants them gone, it shouldn't be an issue.

AKbythebay · Jul 1, 2014

Divorces suck, period!

My advise would be, if you think a divorce is coming in the future, get with a lawyer NOW and start preparing for it. If you can prepare in advance you will be much better off when it happens. The lawyer can advise you how to move things around, put stuff in other people's names, and other ways to shield assets once a divorce occurs. If you wait until separation happens, you may be too late. Talk to a laywer right away - seriously.

fabsroman · Jul 1, 2014

traveller said:
If you sell them below price after either of you files, it can become a 'fraudulent conveyance', something you want to stay away from. If you sell to a 'trustee' now, all she has a claim to are the couple of $$ in your bank account.

Doesn't matter if he does it before the divorce is actually filed. Kind of like running out to the bank and liquidating $30k in cash before filing for divorce. I had a client's spouse do this very thing and we still took it into account when negotiating the Separation and Property Settlement Agreement.

If the other spouse is half smart, she will know what the OP has in firearms and other assets. If they all of a sudden go missing and it becomes an issue in the divorce, it can become pretty messy.

adit · Jul 1, 2014

fabsroman said:
Doesn't matter if he does it before the divorce is actually filed. Kind of like running out to the bank and liquidating $30k in cash before filing for divorce. I had a client's spouse do this very thing and we still took it into account when negotiating the Separation and Property Settlement Agreement.

If the other spouse is half smart, she will know what the OP has in firearms and other assets. If they all of a sudden go missing and it becomes an issue in the divorce, it can become pretty messy.

"I used the money from the sale of the guns to buy the kids shoes."

drkeg · Jul 1, 2014

Talk to a divorce attorney now. Even if you think it will be an amicable divorce, you don't want to be caught without advice. If she gets a lawyer, they will convince her to do all manner of heinous stuff to gain leverage against you. You need to understand what could be coming and protect yourself. Also remember that lawyers get paid by the hour, so be prepared and efficient.

tourrider · Jul 1, 2014

drkeg said:
Talk to a divorce attorney now. Even if you think it will be an amicable divorce, you don't want to be caught without advice. If she gets a lawyer, they will convince her to do all manner of heinous stuff to gain leverage against you. You need to understand what could be coming and protect yourself. Also remember that lawyers get paid by the hour, so be prepared and efficient.

And remember that the first place those lawyers will go is to internet to find every word you ever typed into a forum or social media site. So be careful about your disclosures to the interweb.

Try to remember why you married in the first place and maybe work it out, I do understand it can be impossible. I lost a couple of nice muscle cars to settle a divorce in my stupid younger days.

Good luck.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

traveller · Jul 1, 2014

fabsroman said:
If the other spouse is half smart, she will know what the OP has in firearms and other assets. If they all of a sudden go missing and it becomes an issue in the divorce, it can become pretty messy.

My wife is extremely smart, but she knows everything about one gun which is the one she practices with. The rest of them, she doesn't know how many there are, what type, where they are kept and what fair market value they may have.

fabsroman · Jul 1, 2014

traveller said:
My wife is extremely smart, but she knows everything about one gun which is the one she practices with. The rest of them, she doesn't know how many there are, what type, where they are kept and what fair market value they may have.

You in a bad relationship? You about to go through a divorce? Pretty sure my wife is the same way, but she knows how to use a camera and she knows how to use google pretty good. No doubt in my mind she could figure out exactly what firearms I own, and she would probably come to this website and ask you guys to identify them for her. lol She would also be able to figure out what the bikes I own are worth.

If the OP's wife currently has access to the firearms, it isn't that hard for her to take pictures nowadays and save them for an expert to value.

safecracker · Jul 1, 2014

I opened a gun safe for a lady in a divorce once. Her attorney was involved and wanted the safe opened with no damage and the existing combination had to work. IOW, it had to be completely surreptitious.

I microdrilled the container open and let them have it. It was loaded with guns, jewelry, cash, camera equipment, and other valuables. They took photos of the contents before they touched a thing and then photographed all of the safe's contents, along with detailed descriptions of each item. Then, referring to the first photos they took, they replaced every item where it was originally so that everything appeared untouched.

I replaced one part and there was no evidence that the safe had been opened or that the contents disturbed. I have no idea what the outcome was but I can only imagine her husband's and his attorney's shock when they went to court. It was a pretty damn slick move on their part!

hdatontodo · Jul 1, 2014

One option is to liquidate what you have and deposit the money in the bank. Just don't direct deposit any paychecks after that. I had a spouse that was arguing about my Harley's value, so I sold it fast and put the money in the bank. Paid my lawyer with some bank funds I think.

Sent from my Samsung Phone using Tapatalk

fabsroman · Jul 1, 2014

safecracker said:
I opened a gun safe for a lady in a divorce once. Her attorney was involved and wanted the safe opened with no damage and the existing combination had to work. IOW, it had to be completely surreptitious.

I microdrilled the container open and let them have it. It was loaded with guns, jewelry, cash, camera equipment, and other valuables. They took photos of the contents before they touched a thing and then photographed all of the safe's contents, along with detailed descriptions of each item. Then, referring to the first photos they took, they replaced every item where it was originally so that everything appeared untouched.

I replaced one part and there was no evidence that the safe had been opened or that the contents disturbed. I have no idea what the outcome was but I can only imagine her husband's and his attorney's shock when they went to court. It was a pretty damn slick move on their part!

Yeah, and there have been spouses that load a key tracker on the household computer so they can see everything that the other spouse is doing online. Some divorces can be NASTY, and attorneys have been around the block a couple of times on this stuff. Kind of like doing searches for real property and bank accounts, hiring private investigators to look for assets, etc.

Unless the guns are really worth a crapload, I don't know why we are even having this discussion. Kind of like a client of mine whose spouse wanted to argue over a skateboard and a little gold bracelet. Told him that by the time we were done arguing with it and he and his wife paid the attorneys fees, they could buy 5 skateboards and 5 gold bracelets. A client of mine wanted to argue about a couch once, and I told him it would be best if he just take one of my chainsaws, cut the couch in half, and give half to his wife.

pwoolford · Jul 2, 2014

fabsroman said:
Yeah, and there have been spouses that load a key tracker on the household computer so they can see everything that the other spouse is doing online. Some divorces can be NASTY, and attorneys have been around the block a couple of times on this stuff. Kind of like doing searches for real property and bank accounts, hiring private investigators to look for assets, etc.

Unless the guns are really worth a crapload, I don't know why we are even having this discussion. Kind of like a client of mine whose spouse wanted to argue over a skateboard and a little gold bracelet. Told him that by the time we were done arguing with it and he and his wife paid the attorneys fees, they could buy 5 skateboards and 5 gold bracelets. A client of mine wanted to argue about a couch once, and I told him it would be best if he just take one of my chainsaws, cut the couch in half, and give half to his wife.

Now that is funny! :lol2:

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