Overwatch rifle- help me build one.

Dogabutila · Oct 28, 2014

Your set of requirements don't really lend well towards anything. I think you're limited to the AR10 and SCAR17. If you're willing to accept 5.56 you could look at the MK12 type builds.

apexinm3 · Oct 28, 2014

How about a Fulton Armory M1A, Kreiger(?) barrel, in this chassis system:

Blackfeather RS

I've been hearing good things about the set up: lighter than the Sage EBR, uses AR furniture, plenty of rail space, and won't break the bank.

zombiehunter · Oct 28, 2014

No input, just here to learn. I'd like to turn my M1A into what Scar is talking about.

SCARCQB · Oct 28, 2014

zombiehunter said:
No input, just here to learn. I'd like to turn my M1A into what Scar is talking about.

I have a couple of sage ebr-m1a that are customized with Krieger medium wt barrels. They are accurate enough to produce sub moa groups. But heavy as a main battle tank.

Also I'm stuck with clip on or dedicated nv optics. I want to use a pvs14

SCARCQB · Oct 28, 2014

Ebr groups at 100 yards. .65" group

SCARCQB · Oct 28, 2014

Nnztg8r said:
Tracking Point PGSA 7.62

No build necessary.

I was looking into that. They also offer financing. But at 15k. It a bit too steep.

SCARCQB · Oct 28, 2014

Huckleberry said:
Have you considered upping your caliber and maybe consider an AR30A1 in 300 WM or 338 Lapua?

The Army has been looking at these calibers in their attempt to reclaim the "Infantry Klick" or being able to extend the perimeter kill zone back out to +1000yds with unit individual direct fire.

Sure both rounds are more expensive than .308/7.62 but they'll punch nice size holes in a car body or engine block and then give you a sub-MOA of a man's head or chest at 1000.

You could also take this rifle from tactical to practical, could be a nice F-Class Rifle. Good Rifle, Right Ammo and with some of Ed's guidance and instruction then you could be having loads of fun while honing you abilities to better employ the rifle if needed for a tactical application.

I'm limiting it to 308/7.62. The Overwatch rifle should also double as a combat rifle if need be. The magnum cartridges are a bit too overpowered for that application.

Aside from magnified optics. It should also have the ability to use iron sights. Or offset sights for CQB.

SCARCQB · Oct 28, 2014

In addition to the rifle, what the best suppressor to use that results in the smallest point of impact shift?

Maybe, I should just leave the can on and zero optics with the rifle always in suppressed mode.

SCARCQB · Oct 28, 2014

Chad

The KAC does not have a forward assist. That sucks!!!!!

erwos · Oct 28, 2014

M1A: can do .75 MOA, but requires an expensive match rifle and periodic rebedding. Also very heavy. Not recommended.

SCAR-17: not .75MOA capable (sorry, fanboys)

PTR-91: not .75MOA capable, no available match trigger

FAL: not .75MOA capable, no available match trigger

VEPR308/ SAIGA308: not .75MOA capable

IMHO, your best bet is an AR-10. Give it a really good barrel, a free-float tube, and some great ammo, and you can wring impressive results from it.

Trumpet · Oct 28, 2014

SCARCQB said:
Larue. OBR. Vs. REPR? Which one?

For significantly less than the OBR you could get a GAP-10 from GAP. That would be my choice. LaRue makes a nice rifle, but IMO GAP > LaRue. Don't discount a JP LRP-07. I would also take that over the LaRue, and they're priced just about equally.

clandestine · Oct 28, 2014

SCARCQB said:
Chad

The KAC does not have a forward assist. That sucks!!!!!

Knights 7.62 ARs are shit IMO.

clandestine · Oct 28, 2014

SCARCQB said:
In addition to the rifle, what the best suppressor to use that results in the smallest point of impact shift?

Maybe, I should just leave the can on and zero optics with the rifle always in suppressed mode.

Surefire would be my suggestion for this. Carbon buildup on the mounts suck though.

TheBert · Oct 28, 2014

SCARCQB said:
Overwatch is a military tactic that places a rifleman/ marksman in a strategic point within the battles to provide accurate fire to team members from a distance, usually from an elevated firing position and a hidden vector.

Sometimes can be interchanged with a DMR/ Sniper support. but overwatchers need to be able to change roles in an instant, from providing support fire to being in the front of the battlefield.( recon or scouting)

With this in mind.... My next project is the ideal overwatch rifle.

What do you think about this start

Semi auto

20 round mag

.75 MOA capable

308 NATO

magnified optics

Bipod

match trigger

Reliable

Railed to accomodate NV devices for night ops

800 meter plus effective range

Anti materiel( effective against vehicles and armored personnel)

Suppressor adaptable

The initial platforms that comes into mind are:

M1A

AR10

SCAR17

PTR-91

FAL

VEPR308/ SAIGA308

Is your spotter rocking an M16 or an M4 with a double load of ammo? If you dont have a spotter. why are you outside of the wire alone?

Scottysan · Oct 28, 2014

E.Shell said:
Anyway, were this mine, I'd put together a 18" AR-10 with a mid-weight barrel and keep everything else as light and compact as possible.

Anything shorter and we usually introduce very wide velocity swings due to incomplete combustion, not to mention the sheet of flame about as big as a Volkswagon. I had a 16" AR-10 and it was seriously unpleasant to shoot due to muzzle flash and blast/concussion.
.

My LR308 ap4 has that issue as well, depending on the ammo.
It loves heavy bullets, the heavier the better.
Lighter bullets are less accurate, with more muzzle flame(yep,a Volkswagen )
Great rifles! :thumbsup:

SCARCQB · Oct 28, 2014

TheBert said:
Is your spotter rocking an M16 or an M4 with a double load of ammo? If you dont have a spotter. why are you outside of the wire alone?

This is basically a rifle that will be used to hunt hogs( civy use) at night. And double as a long range Shtf rifle. I really don't have a spotter, just need to be able to defend a bugout place from folks armed with Ar 15s from a distance.

Not for military use. But to be used in military tactics in a Overwatch role. What sucks about self defense is that you will most likely have to do it by yourself.

So distance is my friend, a rifle that can interdict at extended ranges, covertly , that can turn cover into concealment , deliver a high volume of accurate fire is a game changer. I just need to be a step ahead of the perp armed with an MSR.

BRONZ · Oct 28, 2014

Um...what are you over watching in the states.

240 towles · Oct 28, 2014

erwos said:
PTR-91: not .75MOA capable, no available match trigger

FAL: not .75MOA capable, no available match trigger

custom trigger work is available for both at reasonable prices. http://www.triggerwork.net/fal.html
http://www.williamstriggers.com/page5.html

This guy claims to get sub .75 MOA out of a STG-58 after warm up with match ammo
http://fnfal.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=3194466

clandestine · Oct 28, 2014

240 towles said:
custom trigger work is available for both at reasonable prices. http://www.triggerwork.net/fal.html
http://www.williamstriggers.com/page5.html

This guy claims to get sub .75 MOA out of a STG-58 after warm up with match ammo
http://fnfal.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=3194466

I have seen many ruined triggers from him. It may feel good but the stoning work, engagement and reliability is horrendous.

fred2207 · Oct 28, 2014

E.Shell said:
When you said ".75 MOA capable" and "800 meter plus effective range", your list just got shortened up to the AR-10 and possibly the SCAR-17, but good luck getting a match trigger for the SCAR.

You also became somewhat less effective at very close range, where weight and mass are not assets.

You might also want to rethink that match trigger if you want a field rifle for SHTF, both for reliability and to reduce changes of premature discharge under high stress conditions. There is a very good reason dangerous game rifles and milspec rifles have heavier pull weights.

"Anti-material" is usually something heavier than a .308, and any surplus 30 caliber AP/API/APIT ammo has pretty much dried up. A lead core .308 bullet will have definite limitations in this context, especially at longer ranges.

Anyway, were this mine, I'd put together a 18" AR-10 with a mid-weight barrel and keep everything else as light and compact as possible.

Anything shorter and we usually introduce very wide velocity swings due to incomplete combustion, not to mention the sheet of flame about as big as a Volkswagon. I had a 16" AR-10 and it was seriously unpleasant to shoot due to muzzle flash and blast/concussion.

If you actually want to BE effective at longer distances, the longer barrel, with it's additional mass lending stability and enough length to more completely burn the powder charge, will be desirable if not necessary.

The US Army considers 800 meters to be max effective range for a .308, and that's from a bolt action sniper rifle with a 24" barrel. The USMC stretch this to 1k yards and they are also using 24-26" bolt guns to set this expectation.

Just to stay straight, there is no .308 NATO, it's a .308 Winchester. If you wish to add "NATO" to the moniker, it's a 7.62x51 NATO.

What he said... Longer barrel---longer barrel...

Overwatch rifle- help me build one.

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