HANDGUN QUALIFICATION LICENSE (HQL)

Brooklyn · Aug 15, 2013

abean4187 said:
I’m going to be getting the license once it comes out because I have little hope that this will be declared unconstitutional by any court.

The real issue that if/when this becomes constitutional, the other gun grabber states will follow suit and most likely make the licensing procedure worse. Once that happens we might as well kiss any new people goodbye from the gun community as no one is going to jump through all these hoops.

Well in case you were wondering NY nj il and I think ma and ca already have this. And in NY its a lic to possess and you must pay a per year per firearm fee.. it would backrupt most of us.

Md is a backwater state and leads in nothing... but now that you ate aware maybe join MSI and Saf and even the nra and fight.
Think if we had fought this hard when this started in these other states instead of writing them off..

shubin6 · Aug 15, 2013

ShallNotInfringe said:
Correct.

HQL is required to purchase, rent or receive. Nothing about possess.

Rent? so I need a HQL to rent handguns in a range after Oct. 1st?

AJRB · Aug 15, 2013

peckman28 said:
The very notion that this crap is constitutional at all is sickening. There is nothing in the Constitution that permits government at any level to infringe on your explicitly guaranteed rights just because it fulfills an "objective" of theirs.

THIS

Mr H · Aug 15, 2013

shubin6 said:
Rent? so I need a HQL to rent handguns in a range after Oct. 1st?

Literal reading? Yes.

There has been some discussion of on-site v. off-site rentals, where on-site would not require it, but I'm not convinced at this point there really is a distinction.

ShallNotInfringe · Aug 15, 2013

Rent is defined in the law.

“Rent” means the temporary transfer for consideration of a regulated firearm that is taken from the property of the owner of the regulated firearm.

abean4187 · Aug 15, 2013

Brooklyn said:
Well in case you were wondering NY nj il and I think ma and ca already have this. And in NY its a lic to possess and you must pay a per year per firearm fee.. it would backrupt most of us.

Md is a backwater state and leads in nothing... but now that you ate aware maybe join MSI and Saf and even the nra and fight.
Think if we had fought this hard when this started in these other states instead of writing them off..

I already am an NRA member and a sustaining member for MSI. I'm totally willing to fight and put my money into it. But I also see it as a good idea to know when you have lost. The people in the gun grabbing states don’t want firearms. NYC and Baltimore are the way they are because people want it that way. As far as I see it, if we lose the licensing fight in the courts that is it for me.

MD will not be changing in my lifetime and firearm proliferation is spreading across the nation so I have many options for places to move. I’m not going to restrict myself to one state that is controlled by urbanization when I could easily move 100 miles in any direction and be free.

chuckgregory · Aug 15, 2013

With whom does the burden of proof reside to prove that one owns a regulated firearm?

For instance, if one moved from another state before Oct 1, 2013 with regulated weapons but did not register them because it was not mandatory to do so would one be required to register said regulated weapons in order to be exempt from training or would the MSP be obligated to take one at their word that they own said regulated weapons?

pcfixer · Aug 15, 2013

don't know about anyone else. JMHO I have pictures of all my firearms and a comlete
list including serial numbers. Not hard to tract who I bought each from as 5 were
bought in the state of Md.

JMHO also the burden of proof is always on the government to prove. They don't think so.

Hatter · Aug 15, 2013

I have a question I did not find an answer for in a quick search.

What will be the new law for someone out of state renting a gun in Maryland? I often have co-workers from out of town stuck here on the weekends, and once in a while we decide to go shooting at one of the ranges that rents.

ddeanjohnson · Aug 15, 2013

chuckgregory said:
With whom does the burden of proof reside to prove that one owns a regulated firearm?

For instance, if one moved from another state before Oct 1, 2013 with regulated weapons but did not register them because it was not mandatory to do so would one be required to register said regulated weapons in order to be exempt from training or would the MSP be obligated to take one at their word that they own said regulated weapons?

Presumably the application for the HQL will include a question as to whether the applicant lawfully owned a regulated firearm prior to October 1, 2013. If the applicant answers "yes," we don't know yet what forms of documentation MSP will require to prove lawful ownership of a now-regulated firearm that is not in the state system (your scenario is one example, but there are others, including handguns lawfully purchased decades ago, before the current scheme regulating transfers was in place). One option, I suppose, would be for the MSP simply to take the applicant's word for it, subject to the usual penalties for false statements, etc.

chuckgregory · Aug 15, 2013

ddeanjohnson said:
Presumably the application for the HQL will include a question as to whether the applicant lawfully owned a regulated firearm prior to October 1, 2013. If the applicant answers "yes," we don't know yet what forms of documentation MSP will require to prove lawful ownership of a now-regulated firearm that is not in the state system (your scenario is one example, but there are others, including handguns lawfully purchased decades ago, before the current scheme regulating transfers was in place). One option, I suppose, would be for the MSP simply to take the applicant's word for it, subject to the usual penalties for false statements, etc.

Thanks.

bshedwick · Aug 15, 2013

ShallNotInfringe said:
Correct.

HQL is required to purchase, rent or receive. Nothing about possess.

Also, from what I have heard, "renting" at a range to only use at that time at that range does not constitute renting. Renting only applies to taking off premises (as is related to this law).

Anyone have info to the contrary?

lx1x · Aug 15, 2013

bshedwick said:
Also, from what I have heard, "renting" at a range to only use at that time at that range does not constitute renting. Renting only applies to taking off premises (as is related to this law).

Anyone have info to the contrary?

You are. Correct. Its in the bill.

bshedwick · Aug 15, 2013

Hatter said:
I have a question I did not find an answer for in a quick search.

What will be the new law for someone out of state renting a gun in Maryland? I often have co-workers from out of town stuck here on the weekends, and once in a while we decide to go shooting at one of the ranges that rents.

As I just posted, the current analysis seems to be taking the firearm off premises. I think renting at a range to use there is not actually renting as it pertains to this law.

Seems like its confusing on purpose.

spclopr8tr · Aug 15, 2013

bshedwick said:
As I just posted, the current analysis seems to be taking the firearm off premises. I think renting at a range to use there is not actually renting as it pertains to this law.

Seems like its confusing on purpose.

If you read the entire bill you'd recognize the entire bill is confusing, contradictory, and ambiguous. Why should this piece be any different? :banghead:

Mr H · Aug 15, 2013

DING!

Brooklyn · Aug 15, 2013

abean4187 said:
I already am an NRA member and a sustaining member for MSI. I'm totally willing to fight and put my money into it. But I also see it as a good idea to know when you have lost. The people in the gun grabbing states don’t want firearms. NYC and Baltimore are the way they are because people want it that way. As far as I see it, if we lose the licensing fight in the courts that is it for me.

MD will not be changing in my lifetime and firearm proliferation is spreading across the nation so I have many options for places to move. I’m not going to restrict myself to one state that is controlled by urbanization when I could easily move 100 miles in any direction and be free.

And most, including me will join you. But it will not solve the problem of statism it will just buy time... what's your plan c.

Brooklyn · Aug 15, 2013

abean4187 said:
I already am an NRA member and a sustaining member for MSI. I'm totally willing to fight and put my money into it. But I also see it as a good idea to know when you have lost. The people in the gun grabbing states don’t want firearms. NYC and Baltimore are the way they are because people want it that way. As far as I see it, if we lose the licensing fight in the courts that is it for me.

MD will not be changing in my lifetime and firearm proliferation is spreading across the nation so I have many options for places to move. I’m not going to restrict myself to one state that is controlled by urbanization when I could easily move 100 miles in any direction and be free.

And most, including me will join you. But it will not solve the problem of statism it will just buy time... what's your plan c?

JPG · Aug 15, 2013

wesser1 said:
I see no reason why the state cannot also require a license to practice religion, a license to speak, and certainly a license to vote. Why not, right? The only right that specifically states "shall not be infringed" in its wording is allowed to be infringed upon, so certainly all others can in the same manner. Let the sliding begin!

Yesterday, everyone is lining up to sue NC because you have to show photo ID to vote. When the NACCP rep was being interviewed, he said "you shouldn't need a photo id for a constitutional right". I wish the interviewer followed up with, "what about hand gun licenses?"

abean4187 · Aug 15, 2013

Brooklyn said:
And most, including me will join you. But it will not solve the problem of statism it will just buy time... what's your plan c?

Plan C is to give up my guns and accept being a victim. The days of honor are dead in this nation. If worse comes to worse this nation will hand over their guns just like the people of Britain and Australia did.

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