Cobray receiver questions

Alphabrew · Dec 29, 2014

I have become interested in Cobray/SWD stuff and came across these M-11/9 receivers on GunBroker. I know nothing about these, nor the laws surrounding them, but they look cool. Are these an NFA item, cash and carry, or MSP regulated? Is there any legal configuration in which these can be built? Would it make more sense financially to just buy a semi-auto Cobray?

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=460641868

IMBLITZVT · Dec 29, 2014

Alphabrew said:
I have become interested in Cobray/SWD stuff and came across these M-11/9 receivers on GunBroker. I know nothing about these, nor the laws surrounding them, but they look cool. Are these an NFA item, cash and carry, or MSP regulated? Is there any legal configuration in which these can be built? Would it make more sense financially to just buy a semi-auto Cobray?

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=460641868

Are you interested in the Mac Pistols or MGs? The pistols are not legal to my knowledge in MD as they are on the Assault Pistol Ban:

8) Ingram MAC 10/11 semiautomatic pistol and variations including 10 the Partisan Avenger and the SWD Cobray;

Now if we are talking MGs, these as shown in the auction are not registered as MGs, so unless you are licensed MG manufacturer, they are not legal to build into a post sample MG. Looks like a semi auto Pistol Receiver to me, which makes sense.

You might be able to do a SBR Mac, depending on the barrel issues. You can do the MG version. You may be able to put a front grip on it and make it an AOW? Bad timing with all the MSP/ATF SBR crap. However frankly its not a gun worth having in semi auto IMO. I guess you could do a rifle version with a huge ant eater barrel.

wbw2123 · Dec 29, 2014

You would have to build a Mac10/11 in carbine/sbr configuration to avoid a banned configuration. http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=3144

There is however a very large aftermarket support for them because of all the low cost transferable mg. Keep in mind they are known for terrible trigger slap.

ericoak · Dec 29, 2014

Semi auto mac10s are just giant heavy pistols and doesn't do anything better than your standard steel/polymer frame handgun.

Gunlawyer · Dec 29, 2014

That auction you linked to is a semi receiver. I note that there is no selector switch hole.

Honestly, just buy a semi Cobray already built and ready to go. You will spend a lot more money hunting down parts to go with the receiver in the auction.

As others have noted, these semi-versions are heavy, bulky, clumsy novelty guns. They look cool but that is all they have going for them. This is all academic anyway. No Cobray M11 pistols for you in Marylandistan!

The real fun is when you drop $ 4 - 5K for a transferrable SMG M11/9. Lots of aftermarket uppers available as well.

Also, if you are digging the whole Cobray thing, be sure to consider the ones chambered in .380. They are tiny, cute, and fun! The little Cobray .380 2000 RPM (SWD M11A1) machinepistol is a handful of barely controllable pure fun! With a Seecamp .380 for size comparison:

StantonCree · Dec 29, 2014

Gunlawyer said:
That auction you linked to is a semi receiver. I note that there is no selector switch hole.

Honestly, just buy a semi Cobray already built and ready to go. You will spend a lot more money hunting down parts to go with the receiver in the auction.

As others have noted, these semi-versions are heavy, bulky, clumsy novelty guns. They look cool but that is all they have going for them. This is all academic anyway. No Cobray M11 pistols for you in Marylandistan!

The real fun is when you drop $ 4 - 5K for a transferrable SMG M11/9. Lots of aftermarket uppers available as well.

Also, if you are digging the whole Cobray thing, be sure to consider the ones chambered in .380. They are tiny, cute and fun! The little Cobray .380 2000 RPM (SWD M11A1) machinepistol is a handful of barely controllable pure fun!:

Is that the Seecamp 32?

Alphabrew · Dec 29, 2014

Gunlawyer said:
That auction you linked to is a semi receiver. I note that there is no selector switch hole.

Honestly, just buy a semi Cobray already built and ready to go. You will spend a lot more money hunting down parts to go with the receiver in the auction.

As others have noted, these semi-versions are heavy, bulky, clumsy novelty guns. They look cool but that is all they have going for them. This is all academic anyway. No Cobray M11 pistols for you in Marylandistan!

The real fun is when you drop $ 4 - 5K for a transferrable SMG M11/9. Lots of aftermarket uppers available as well.

Also, if you are digging the whole Cobray thing, be sure to consider the ones chambered in .380. They are tiny, cute, and fun! The little Cobray .380 2000 RPM (SWD M11A1) machinepistol is a handful of barely controllable pure fun! With a Seecamp .380 for size comparison:

So jealous. I can def see myself buying a full auto one, but I'd like for the prices to come down to the $3,500 range for a Powder Springs one. Hard to believe these things were just a couple hundred bucks each 20 years ago.

IMBLITZVT · Dec 29, 2014

Alphabrew said:
So jealous. I can def see myself buying a full auto one, but I'd like for the prices to come down to the $3,500 range for a Powder Springs one. Hard to believe these things were just a couple hundred bucks each 20 years ago.

Don't wait for them to come down. It could happen buts its probably twice as likely you will see them at $5.5K soon. With the Lage uppers, these are not coming down anytime soon. I actually think they have some of the largest growth potential in future of MGs in the US. Uzis are about $12K and MP5s up around $25K. These upgraded Macs shoot near as well as the UZIs and outclass pretty much any of the tube guns IMHO. They are pretty common but still I can see them being in the $7-8-9K range in the near future if the market remains unchanged. Yeah Gas was 88 Cents a gallon 20 years ago...

The 380 Mac is nice. However 380 is like 2-3 times more expensive than 9mm. Also a lot fewer upgrades are out there for it. In its stock form the 380 also has an even higher RPM. About the only reason I like the 380ACP version over the 9mm version is if you are going to put a Max31A upper on it. Then the slightly shorter frame really helps. Otherwise give me a M11/9mm every time!

Gunlawyer · Dec 29, 2014

Alphabrew: Good choice. The Powder Springs guns in .45 are really fun pieces of US history. Very reliable but hard to hit with at significant distance. Expensive to shoot, heavy when fully loaded, but lots and lots of fun. Built and handle like a steel brick but you will be glad you own one! It will put HUGE smiles on friends and family when they carefully, and under competent supervision, shoot it. The Powder Springs gun will make the SWD M11/9 feel "chincy" and delicate by comparison. Regardless, both the SWD guns and the Powder Springs guns are great fun and they only appreciate in value!

My dad, RIP, a former combat vet in Vietnam, thought the suppressed Powder Springs gun in .45 was the cat's meow, seven .45 cases in the air:

Dad%20rips%20burst%20from%20MAC%2010.JPG

Do it man, they are not going to get cheaper.

Abacab · Dec 29, 2014

As a deeply wise man I know once said, "I will live to see the day of the $10k MAC."

NateIU10 · Dec 29, 2014

We have 20-something M11A1s (.380) coming in sometime soon.

Gunlawyer · Dec 29, 2014

mpdc4511 said:
Is that the Seecamp 32?

It is the Seecamp .380.

StantonCree · Dec 29, 2014

Gunlawyer said:
It is the Seecamp .380.

I want a 32 but I love those little things, beautiful little gun.

Alphabrew · Dec 29, 2014

NateIU10 said:
We have 20-something M11A1s (.380) coming in sometime soon.

OrbitalEllipses · Dec 29, 2014

Alphabrew said:

Yeah. Almost tempted to get one and throw a cool upper on it instead of that ridiculous .380ACP.

bobthefisher · Dec 30, 2014

IMBLITZVT said:
Don't wait for them to come down. It could happen buts its probably twice as likely you will see them at $5.5K soon. With the Lage uppers, these are not coming down anytime soon. I actually think they have some of the largest growth potential in future of MGs in the US. Uzis are about $12K and MP5s up around $25K. These upgraded Macs shoot near as well as the UZIs and outclass pretty much any of the tube guns IMHO. They are pretty common but still I can see them being in the $7-8-9K range in the near future if the market remains unchanged. Yeah Gas was 88 Cents a gallon 20 years ago...

The 380 Mac is nice. However 380 is like 2-3 times more expensive than 9mm. Also a lot fewer upgrades are out there for it. In its stock form the 380 also has an even higher RPM. About the only reason I like the 380ACP version over the 9mm version is if you are going to put a Max31A upper on it. Then the slightly shorter frame really helps. Otherwise give me a M11/9mm every time!

Agreed. If you're thinking about getting a 9mm MAC-10, Cobray M-11, etc. Then you better start looking now. It's getting increasingly harder and harder to find them under $4.5k. I bought mine in early 2011 for $3.1k and it came with a Bowers CAC-9 suppressor. Buy while you still can, mark those words!

Alphabrew · Dec 30, 2014

bobthefisher said:
Agreed. If you're thinking about getting a 9mm MAC-10, Cobray M-11, etc. Then you better start looking now. It's getting increasingly harder and harder to find them under $4.5k. I bought mine in early 2011 for $3.1k and it came with a Bowers CAC-9 suppressor. Buy while you still can, mark those words!

I just ordered the "Macman" book from Amazon. I'll research which one I want and be on the lookout for something. I get my bonus in March, so now is a good time to do some research. I'm digging the Powder Springs guns but maybe a 9mm would be more practical. I'd like to get one of the original Sionics suppressors to go with it.

I still think these might be in a bubble, but you can't take your money with you. Regan almost got rid of the ATF. All it takes is for the political winds to change and the NFA laws might go away overnight. I'm considering this an extravagant purchase, not an investment.

IMBLITZVT · Dec 30, 2014

Alphabrew said:
I just ordered the "Macman" book from Amazon. I'll research which one I want and be on the lookout for something. I get my bonus in March, so now is a good time to do some research. I'm digging the Powder Springs guns but maybe a 9mm would be more practical. I'd like to get one of the original Sionics suppressors to go with it.

I still think these might be in a bubble, but you can't take your money with you. Regan almost got rid of the ATF. All it takes is for the political winds to change and the NFA laws might go away overnight. I'm considering this an extravagant purchase, not an investment.

I would suggust UziTalk.com for research. The books are great for reading about the original mac. However 95% of us don't shoot it in stock config. Are you buying the Mac as a piece of history or a gun to quickly put lead down range? I highly suggest reading about the conversions out for each of the models. The Lage uppers in the Max series and his 22 kits. Check out the AMP and Sabre uppers for reference. I would suggest that this should guide your buying more than anything else. Also decide if you want to shoot 45ACP or 9mm (or 380 if you are really going to shoot the stock upper). I have found that the Mac is really just a shooter grade gun. Manufacturer really is not that important. Anything wrong can be fixed without to much cost. You need to think about exactly what you are looking for. The Mac 10 is about twice the size (Volume) of the M11 or M11A1. Its really amazing how much larger they are! Read up on Mags. Mags really become a big deal on FAs as you load them a fair amount and often have a lot to do with how well your gun shoots. Finally I would not stress on the suppressor part. I have not found Macs to be very enjoyable to shoot suppressed unless you are going to be doing so with goggles. Why do you want the original suppressor?

We have talked about the bubble part many times. However almost all investments have risk. At least if they make NFA legal again, you will regain your freedom at the cost of your extravagant purchase.

I would suggest one other thing. MDTCA will be having our Kick off meeting and open house/MG Show on March 15th. We will have a bunch of Macs at the show. You can really get a feel for them there. Can't shoot any but our shoots will start up the following weekend and you can see them in action. If you have not seen a Mac 10 side by side with a M11, its very informative. Being a M11 owner, the Mac 10 reminds a cinder block with a handle its so much larger! Not saying its bad but you would not normally think there would be that difference in size.

Wayne1one · Dec 30, 2014

NateIU10 said:
We have 20-something M11A1s (.380) coming in sometime soon.

will be looking into these....

Abacab · Dec 30, 2014

MACs shoot very nicely with Gemtech's Viper series. They have a nice ratcheting setup that locks the suppressor down well.

If you get the original suppressor, get it for the cost of the stamp and have Tom Bowers refurb it.

Cobray receiver questions

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