Older Md handgun law

67temp · Oct 21, 2014

I only know the laws after 2000. Was there ever a time in MD where hand guns could be purchased but no paper work filled out? I know older guns like C&R or war bring backs would qualify but I'm looking for guns/laws made in the 80's-90's.

Example: A semi-auto handgun is used for something. The serial is run by police and comes back as unregistered.

I find it hard to beleive a gun isn't registered to someone somewhere. Some form should have been filled out at one point. I remember my first gun in the early 90's and filling out forms. Even if the gun was purchased out of state then brought here there should be a record. My wife has bought handguns in other states (resident there at the time) and has filled out forms. Person "c" says the gun could be one that was grandfathered in, thus that is why there is no record of it.

Are the databases used by police a state or national datbase?

awptickes · Oct 21, 2014

Sorry, this is long.

BLUF: The Gun Control Act of 1968 required all firearms manufactured and imported to bear a serial number, and required a licensee to record those serial numbers during purchase.

Sources:

§ 923. Licensing
(a) No person shall engage in the business of importing, manufacturing, or dealing in firearms, or importing or manufacturing ammunition, until he has filed an application with and received a license to do so from the Secretary. The application shall be in such form and contain only that information necessary to determine eligibility for licensing as the Secretary shall by regulation prescribe and shall include a photograph and fingerprints of the applicant. Each applicant shall pay a fee for obtaining such a license, a separate fee being required for each place in which the applicant is to do business, as follows:
(1) If the applicant is a manufacturer --
(A) of destructive devices, ammunition for destructive devices or armor
piercing ammunition, a fee of $1,000 per year;
(B) of firearms other than destructive devices, a fee of $50 per year; or
(C) of ammunition for firearms, other than ammunition for destructive
devices or armor piercing ammunition, a fee of $10 per year.
(2) If the applicant is an importer --
(A) of destructive devices, ammunition for destructive devices or armor piercing ammunition, a fee of $1,000 per year; or
(B) of firearms other than destructive devices or ammunition for firearms other than destructive devices, or ammunition other than armor piercing ammunition, a fee of $50 per year.
(3) If the applicant is a dealer --
(A) in destructive devices or ammunition for destructive devices, a fee of $1,000 per year; or
(B) who is not a dealer in destructive devices, a fee of $200 for 3 years, except that the fee for renewal of a valid license shall be $90 for 3 years.
snip
(i) Licensed importers and licensed manufacturers shall identify, by means of a serial number engraved or cast on the receiver or frame of the weapon, in such manner as the Secretary shall by regulations prescribe, each firearm imported or manufactured by such importer or manufacturer. The serial number of any semiautomatic assault weapon manufactured after the date of the enactment of this sentence shall clearly show the date on which the weapon was manufactured. A large capacity ammunition feeding device manufactured after the date of the enactment of this sentence shall be identified by a serial number that clearly shows that the device was manufactured or imported after the effective date of this subsection, and such other identification as the Secretary may by regulation prescribe.

§ 178.124 Firearms transaction record.

(a) A licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer shall not sell or otherwise dispose, temporarily or permanently, of any firearm to any person, other than another licensee, unless the licensee records the transaction on a firearms transaction record, Form 4473: Provided, That a firearms transaction record, Form 4473, shall not be required to record the disposition made of a firearm delivered to a licensee for the sole purpose of repair or customizing when such firearm or a replacement firearm is returned to the person from whom received.

(b) A licensed manufacturer, licensed importer, or licensed dealer shall retain in alphabetical (by name of purchaser), chronological (by date of disposition), or numerical (by transaction serial number) order, and as a part of the required records, each Form 4473 obtained in the course of transferring custody of the firearms.

(c) Prior to making an over-the-counter transfer of a firearm to a nonlicensee who is a resident of the State in which the licensee's business premises is located, the licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer so transferring the firearm shall obtain a Form 4473 from the transferee showing the name, address (including county or similar political subdivision), date and place of birth, height, weight, and race of the transferee, and certification by the transferee that the transferee is not prohibited by the Act from transporting or shipping a firearm in interstate or foreign commerce or receiving a firearm which has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce or possessing a firearm in or affecting commerce. The licensee shall identify the firearm to be transferred by listing in the Form 4473 the name of the manufacturer, the name of the importer (if any), the type, model, caliber or gauge, and the serial number of the firearm. Before transferring the firearm described in the Form 4473, the licensee:

(1) Shall cause the transferee to be identified in any manner customarily used in commercial transactions (e.g., a driver's license), and shall note on the form the method used, and

(2) If the licensee does not know or have reasonable cause to believe that the transferee is disqualified by law from receiving the firearm, shall sign and date the form.

(d) Prior to making an over-the-counter transfer of a shotgun or rifle under the provisions contained in § 178.96(c) to a nonlicensee who is not a resident of the State in which the licensee's business premises is located, the licensee so transferring the shotgun or rifle, and such transferee, shall comply with the requirements of paragraph (c) of this section.

(e) Prior to making a transfer of a firearm to any nonlicensee who is not a resident of the State in which the licensee's business premises is located, and such nonlicensee is acquiring the firearm by loan or rental from the licensee for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, the licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer so furnishing the firearm, and such transferee, shall comply with the provisions of paragraph (c) of this section.

(f) Form 4473 shall be submitted, in duplicate, to a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer by a transferee who is purchasing or otherwise acquiring a firearm by other than an over-the-counter transaction, and who is a resident of the State in which the licensee's business premises is located. The Form 4473 shall show the name, address, date and place of birth, height, weight, and race of the transferee; and the title, name, and address of the principal law enforcement officer of the locality to which the firearm will be delivered. The transferee also must date and execute the sworn statement contained on the form showing that, in case the firearm to be transferred is a firearm other than a shotgun or rifle, the transferee is 21 years or more of age; that, in case the firearm to be transferred is a shotgun or rifle, the transferee is 18 years or more of age; that the transferee is not prohibited by the provisions of the Act from shipping or transporting a firearm in interstate or foreign commerce or receiving a firearm which has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce or possessing a firearm in or affecting commerce; and that the transferee's receipt of the firearm would not be in violation of any statute of the State or published ordinance applicable to the locality in which the transferee resides. Upon receipt of such Forms 4473, the licensee shall identify the firearm to be transferred by listing in the Forms 4473 the name of the manufacturer, the name of the importer (if any), the type, model, caliber or gauge, and the serial number of the firearm to be transferred. The licensee shall prior to shipment or delivery of the firearm to such transferee, forward by registered or certified mail (return receipt requested) a copy of the Form 4473 to the principal law enforcement officer named in the Form 4473 by the transferee, and shall delay shipment or delivery of the firearm to the transferee for a period of at least 7 days following receipt by the licensee of the return receipt evidencing delivery of the copy of the Form 4473 to such principal law enforcement officer, or the return of the copy of the Form 4473 to the licensee due to the refusal of such principal law enforcement officer to accept same in accordance with U.S. Postal Service regulations. The original Form 4473, and evidence of receipt or rejection of delivery of the copy of the Form 4473 sent to the principal law enforcement officer, shall be retained by the licensee as a part of the records required to be kept under this subpart.

(g) A licensee who sells or otherwise disposes of a firearm to a nonlicensee who is other than an individual, shall obtain from the transferee the information required by this section from an individual authorized to act on behalf of the transferee. In addition, the licensee shall obtain from the individual acting on behalf of the transferee a written statement, executed under the penalties of perjury, that the firearm is being acquired for the use of and will be the property of the transferee, and showing the name and address of that transferee.

(h) The requirements of this section shall be in addition to any other recordkeeping requirement contained in this part.

(i) A licensee may obtain, upon request, an emergency supply of Forms 4473 from any regional director (compliance). For normal usage, a licensee should request a year's supply from the ATF Distribution Center, P. O. Box 5950, Springfield, Virginia 22150-5950.

(Paragraph (f) approved by the Office of Management and Budget under control number 1512-0130; all other recordkeeping approved by the Office of Management and Budget under control number 1512-0129)

[33 FR 18555, Dec. 14, 1968, as amended by T.D. ATF -172, 49 FR 14942, Apr. 16, 1984; T.D. ATF-241, 51 FR 39625, Oct. 29, 1986; T.D. ATF-270, 53 FR 10502, Mar. 31, 1988]

Basically what will happen is the ATF will get involved and perform a serial number trace to figure out where it went. They start with the manufacturer, who will tell them which distributor, then the FFL, then hopefully the FFL tells them the person.

NateIU10 · Oct 21, 2014

There are multiple ways to own non MD registered handguns. Moving into the state prior to October 1, 2013 did not require registration.

67temp · Oct 21, 2014

I know in other states person 1 can buy a gun. Then sell it face to face with person 2 and person 2 moves into Md. Wouldn't there still be a record of person 1 purchasing the handgun?

NateIU10 · Oct 21, 2014

Sure, on FFL ones bound book and 4473, which ATF would get via trace request. If person 1 or 2 made the handgun, no possible paper trail, however.

Bald Fat Guy · Oct 21, 2014

Perhaps what the OP is looking for is that in MD , face to face sales of regulated weapons ( primarily handguns ) were legal between private parties until 1996.

sxs · Oct 21, 2014

Bald Fat Guy said:
Perhaps what the OP is looking for is that in MD , face to face sales of regulated weapons ( primarily handguns ) were legal between private parties until 1996.

And I personally have several guns purchased used FTF prior to 1996 and just prior to that law taking effect, sold a few. Then there are others I've purchased before that date that were bought either new or transferred from out of state. Like last years law, the 1996 law was passed in the Spring and went into effect Oct 1 (IIRC, and I'm pretty sure I do)

dblas · Oct 21, 2014

67temp said:
I know in other states person 1 can buy a gun. Then sell it face to face with person 2 and person 2 moves into Md. Wouldn't there still be a record of person 1 purchasing the handgun?

Most other states DO NOT have the registration scheme that MD has. The only record would be in the FFLs bound book, not any LE database.

BigDaddy · Oct 21, 2014

I'll bet there are a lot of f to f cash transactions among otherwise law abiding citizens, who either don't know the law or don't care. Instead of agonizing through 20 posts on "what do I do, pop said I get his guns but mom got everything?" Mom says "here is your dad's gun", and the son sells it to the next door neighbor to buy beer.

John from MD · Oct 21, 2014

NateIU10 said:
Sure, on FFL ones bound book and 4473, which ATF would get via trace request. If person 1 or 2 made the handgun, no possible paper trail, however.

Having had a gunsmithing business for over 30 years I feel I can comment on this. Most small dealers that I new and worked with logged their Acquisition and Disposition records by hand in big green bound books. Many wrote the info rather than printed it as it saved time.

I have participated in audits of gunshops to fix books and find missing guns for them after the ATF came through. I can tell you that finding legible information under the book system was hit and miss at best. Many times we couldn't find something and the ATF guys would read the store the riot act and check on them more frequently.

I wouldn't worry too much about traces going back say to about '80 unless you bought it from a big store that kept typed or computer records. Many of the ATF auditors I knew were industry folks who went to work for the AFT because they liked guns. They weren't trying to put you out of business in those days. They even gave me a letter to get my family pistol back from Vietnam in case anyone gave me a hard time about it. :thumbsup:

Additionally, while business where supposed to send their 4473's to WV after they went out of business, small dealers and gunsmiths that died suddenly had families that never new to contact ATF and they would never find out until the next audit. By then the family had clean up the place and sold what guns they didn't want and who knows where the books went.

Of course, this was a loonng time ago.

John

John from MD · Oct 21, 2014

BigDaddy said:
I'll bet there are a lot of f to f cash transactions among otherwise law abiding citizens, who either don't know the law or don't care. Instead of agonizing through 20 posts on "what do I do, pop said I get his guns but mom got everything?" Mom says "here is your dad's gun", and the son sells it to the next door neighbor to buy beer.

ya think?

John

ma_deuce · Oct 21, 2014

Didn't Maryland have a registration system even prior to 1968? I thought that even before that there a purchaser from a dealer had to fill out a form that went to the local police and/or the state police, and there was a waiting period, too. I don't know if they kept a permanent record, though.

sxs · Oct 21, 2014

ma_deuce said:
Didn't Maryland have a registration system even prior to 1968? I thought that even before that there a purchaser from a dealer had to fill out a form that went to the local police and/or the state police, and there was a waiting period, too. I don't know if they kept a permanent record, though.

I wasn't aware of any....but I didn't turn 21 until 1978 and never bought my first handgun until 1982 or so (which was a FTF sold a few years later in a FTF, BTW).

Bald Fat Guy · Oct 21, 2014

That was 1966 .

67temp · Oct 22, 2014

Bald Fat Guy said:
Perhaps what the OP is looking for is that in MD , face to face sales of regulated weapons ( primarily handguns ) were legal between private parties until 1996.

Yes that is basically what I inquiring about. I know most of the changes for 68, 86, 01 and 13, but wasnt aware of 96. Guess it's time to read up on that one.

Bald Fat Guy · Oct 23, 2014

If you are seeking Maryland specific, the big years were 1966, 1972,1994, 1996.

amoebicmagician · Oct 23, 2014

dblas said:
Most other states DO NOT have the registration scheme that MD has. The only record would be in the FFLs bound book, not any LE database.

this is how it should be, the greatest bulwark to opression via tyrannical government is an armed populace, so the first thing they would want is to round up all the guns.

Kind of hard when no one knows where they are, who has them, or how many. :thumbsup:

Older Md handgun law

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